Letters from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet support group 1997 (17)
The SCD list server broke down in end of May 1997, and Michael Carbales who used to maintain it disappeared (went offline). This caused a lot of confusion which you can read about more in detail here...
On June 17, John Chalmers implemented a temporary arrangement, forwarding the emails of the group,and already on June 24th, the new list server was up.
The postings below are some of those "new" emails.
From the IBDlist Digest (18 Jun 97)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 14:32:22 -0400
From: John Chalmers <email@example.com>
Subject: SCD Mailing List
SCD Mailing List
This message is being sent to people who we believe have been subscribers to the SCD mailing list.
If you no longer wish to participate in this, please email me at firstname.lastname@example.org and I will remove you from the list promptly. If you have gotten two messages I may have inadvertently put you on the list twice so please let me know an I will correct it.
As many of you know, the list that we were using is no longer in operation. As a temporary measure, a temporary list is being set up for your use.
We have been trying to reconstruct the list and we suspect it is not accurate so please send email addresses to me an I will verify that they are on the list or add them as appropriate.
We will keep you posted on future developments regarding the mailing list for our group.
In the mean time, if you have any problems or questions, email them to me.
Special thanks to Don Wiss and others for their help in reconstructing the list of subscribers.
From: "William Laing" <email@example.com>
Subject: SCD list up again
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:24:00 -0600
Hello John and the SCD Group
I am very please to see the list up again even if it is only temp.
And Thanks to all those who helped put it back on line.
Needless to say John I wish to remain on the list, and I sincerely hope some means can be found to keep it running.
Good luck and good health to all
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 09:21:45 -0400
From: John Chalmers <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: SCD LIST
I appreciate the messages that have been coming in. I have been trying to update the mailing list. If I miss getting someone off, my appologies. Send me another message.
I also have been taking off addresses of those who I have been getting error messages.
Right now I have 95 adedresses on the list.
If you know of someone who you remember as being on the list, send that address to me and I'll make sure it gets on. Email can be sent directly to me at
Do not worry about any messages you get. I am working to get them cleaned up. Go ahead and exchange information so that we can get the bugs worked out. Please be patient and we'll get rolling again.
I just talked to Elaine yesterday. She and husband Herb are fine and settled in their new house.
The web site http://www.fwi.com/cmg is hopefully going to undergo some changes in the future. I have made application for Master Card/Visa. I hope to hear on the application in the next two weeks. That should make ordering the book/tapes a lot easier. I expect to make some minor revisions at the same time.
Please keep your comments and questions flowing.
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:13:05 -0700
From: Denise <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: SCD Mailing List
Thanks John and Don for getting this going again. Sure have missed the
list and am so very glad it's back again. Greetings everyone!
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:24:51 PST
From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA>
Subject: keep me on
Hi Everyone, Thanks to all those who got this list up and running again. And
KEEP ME ON of course please!
Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:03:41 GMT
I was so glad to see the list up and running again. Many thanks to John for his efforts. Although I have not contributed as much as I probably should, I have been listening in on the conversations for six months now and missed it when I received none.
My experience so far as been simply unbelievable! I am on the diet a little over six months and have been almost symptom free for the last two.
When followed with "fanatical adherence" the diet yields astounding results for many people.
This discussion group is an important part of the healing process and I'm thrilled it is operational again.
Steven A. Melnick, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Education
Penn State Harrisburg
777 W. Harrisburg Pike, W-351
Middletown, PA 17057-4898
Web Page: http://www.hbg.psu.edu/~sam7
Ask The Pharmacist
Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:19:04 GMT
Eric Brandt is a pharmacist who, as you can read below, also has colitis. I "met" him through a website he runs on an Internet Provider very close to where I live, (he's on Vancouver Island ... check a map if you wish). Perhaps it would be an idea to "install" him / a link somewhere on the SCD site, sort of "Have a question about drugs? / Ask The Pharmacist"?
>>I am quite willing to answer questions as I can relate my personal
>>experiences as well as professional ones. ( I have colitis).
>>I have no info on mail order pharmaceutical to or from the US.
>>Eric Brandt, B.Sc. Pharm
Re: Hello, hello, I've missed you
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 0:33:39 GMT
I've been on Elaine's diet for over 2 years with miraculous results. I took
myself off all meds about a year ago and except for arthritis (UC
connected), you wouldn't know I'd ever been sick. I began the diet about 7
years after being diagnosed. Please put all your energies in "staying on
the wagon" in order to reap the major benefits of this diet. Luck & love to
keep me going!
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 0:53:12 GMT
Hi! I just saw Dr. Ronald Hoffman (he wrote the forward to Elaine's book)
and he is amazed on how well I am doing. I am completely off all
medications, for around 4 months now. I started the diet on 12/24/96 I was
at my worst. I was taking all the medications including Prednisone. I
gained all my weight back, and I don't visit my bathroom 10 times a day.
I am going to be on T.V. for one of Dr. Hoffman's miracle patients. It
will be airing in August some time on the Korean Channel (I am not Korean
neither is Dr. Hoffman). Well I couldn't feel better thank GOD.
Thanks again for getting the list back up!
Good Luck !
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 2:06:27 GMT
I'm looking forward to being part of the group. Please keep my name on the
Re: Hello, hello, I've missed you
Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:47:02 GMT
I ate a lot of omelets for breakfast when I started. Cheese is very filling
& satisfying. Also starting your day with the homemade yogurt is
particularly beneficial. I know there doesn't seem to be much to choose
from at the very beginning and it will feel somewhat boring & repetetive
but hopefully the diarrhea will abate soon and you can start enjoying the
fruits and veggies. Believe me, boredom is a small price to pay for the
good health I've attained through the diet. Lots of good luck to you.
Please keep us posted.
I couldn't be happier for you! I well know how it feels to be a part of
Why the diet may not work for all people ... Peter d'Abano's "Eat Right for your
Thu, 19 Jun 1997 9:50:25 GMT
I was talking with an acquaintance who's been battling with allergies & bowel problems most of her life, just like me, and she mentioned this book "Eat Right for Your Type", which is based on blood-typing and "lectins" (Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, ed. 16, pp.1016: "one of several plant proteins that stimulate lymphocytes [defense cells of the lymph system] to proliferate"), on the theory that lectins in food, esp. starches, dairy, and also a number of other foods / food groups, cause blood agglutination ("clumping") and inflammatory reactions on cell membranes.
The author, who's an ND (naturopath), establishes 4 different diet protocols, depending on your blood type (A, B, AB, or O), and then further making distinctions for the 3 major racial groups (African, Caucasion, Asian) on our planet.
After reading this, and what he recommends for my blood type & race, it dawned on me that this may be the reason why some folks don't have success (or full success) with the SCD diet: maybe it needs to be fine-tuned even more, perhaps using some other methodology such as this one of blood typing, or maybe based on food's acid/base balance, or something else as
yet undiscovered / unpublished?
With best wishes,
White Rock, British Columbia, Canada
Fax from Elaine Gottschall: "Careless adherence to diet outlined in "Breaking the vicious cycle"
1) Skeptic's Corner? 2) Un-subscribers' reasons
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 2:29:45 GMT
I think it would be very interesting to have a "Skeptic's Corner" (or some other title, this doesn't feel quite right, but just a rough concept) wherein are comments from "doubters & objectors" (like our infamous Dr. Holland).
Now that the group is coming alive again, a lot of "un-subscribe" messages are being hurled around.
I've written all of them so far a little note asking, out of personal curiosity, "Why are you un-subscribing? Found a better way? or didn't have IBD?"
Some have replied (incl. one who proclaimed one of those "miracle food supplement powders" that are so prevalent in the USA & sold via "Multilevel Marketing" (i.e. pyramid schemes by any other name) had cured him; I was interested but skeptical, knowing from experience what most of these powders contain, so asked him for ingredients list.
Sure enough, you guessed it: tops on the list of ingredients (which on this continent means "most of that item in this product") were the items I've shifted to the right ...
Lecithin (Dietmar's note: this is usually made from soy, which is a "no" at least for me)
Milk Thistle Extract
... whoa! That gave me the shivers!
But the reply below is even MORE interesting. Read it & weep
>At 06:19 PM 6/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Please remove me from the SCD list.
>I noticed your message. Have you found some better method that really
> works for you? I'd love t hear about it!
>(Or maybe you didn't have IBD?)
I most definitely DO have Crohn's disease. I had surgery about 1.3 years ago, and now feel great. I read a good deal of the Gottschall book near the time I had surgery, with great interest and initial enthusiasm, because I was in pain all the time and sick of prednisone etc. But the more I read, the less sense it made to me. It seems crazy, and I will not try it. Just like I don't need to try juggling sharp knives to know that it's not wise.
How to figure out "what works for your bowel"
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 16:30:53 GMT
The following was a comment from someone who's trying the SCD diet ...
>I am not very scientifically inclined, and find it nearly impossible
>to observe the affects of any change in diet, supplements or exercise.
And here's my reply ...
You believe so?
Here's some suggestions: what <<< I >>> did first was put some "markers"
into a meal (such as eating beets, or having un-ground poppy seeds or
sesame seeds or papaya seeds, or whatever works for you ... maybe drink a
glass of milk?) to find out the "transit time" from top to bottom (without
that you won't be able to correlate "what goes in" vs. "what & how it comes
out" at the end.
Then I took a spiral-bound notebook (50 cents each, cheap) and made some
- Bowel movements (time, consistency, other notes like gas or blood),
- Food eaten (BM's is listed first because I go to the WC more often than I
have meals! Record EVERY COMPONENT OF A MEAL, down to not just "oil" but
"olive oil", and "guestimate" the amounts just roughly, I go by "servings"
so 1 apple is a serving, a 4 oz piece of BBQ'd steak is a serving, a
normal-size dish of salad is a serving, or whatever)
- I also assess skin tone at several points (this is based on personal
observations that my skin reflects my bowel health, plus some advice from
my naturopath): the forehead, the nares (that's the area on each side of
your nostrils), the posterior mandibular ramus (that's the area behind your
jaw), and the scalp. But that's not essential if you're not
"scientifically inclined" ... just stick to BM's output & food input to
keep it simple.
Then, after maybe a week or 2, have a look back. You've figured out your
bowel's transit time (let's say it's 24 hours from start to finish), so now
you can check: "OK, I had lots of blood & mucus & gas at 8am Wednesday,
what did I eat approx. 8am TUESDAY?"
And away you go! You're becoming your very own testing-lab scientist!
And it's ALL for your benefit, and all perfectly understandable by you, and
replicable: once you find "Ah, so melons give me bad results!" you know
what to do, right? NO MORE MELONS! And you move & improve your knowledge
about what works FOR YOUR BODY & BOWEL from there!
>But I *think* I might be doing a bit better than before (when I was
>having orange juice, blue cheese and maybe one or two other "bad"
>things). It takes forever (well, months anyway) to notice a change,
>if at all, and by then I've changed several other parameters as well
>so I never know what caused what.
That's why ...
(a) finding out your bowel's transit time, and
(b) plugging that into your food diary info,
enables one to "sort the wheat from the chaff"! ;-)
Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:21:09 GMT
I think your ideas for keeping track of food and symptoms were great, but I was under the impression that certain foods will increase the transit time. I mean, isn't that really why we get diarrhea, because things are moving through so quickly, for whatever reason, that all the water doesn't get properly absorbed? So I'm not sure if finding your transit time using something like beets as a marker could be generalized to other foods.
Tina (Ontario, Canada)
Bad eating habits?
I am glad to see the list back on my computer. I have been on the diet for just over a month now and am convinced that it will work. I must say that the fact that I am feeling better for just eating better is worth the price of the book.
I wonder how many of us had bad eating habits before UC ?
The biggest problem I have had recently are what I would call wet farts. This is a most annoying condition , and has kept me a prisoner of my home. I just realized the other day that it must be due to the cheese I've been snacking on. That or the onions I have been cooking into tomatoe sauce and chicken soup.
As much as I hate the UC I do enjoy the diet and the awareness of foods. I love making chicken soup.
By the way, I am 46, diagnosed five years ago, but the bleeding and all really locked in to stay last October. Both times this thing reared it's ugly head, I was under stress and I quit smoking. I have now been smoke free since last Sept. and will not go back no matter what effect it might have on UC.
I saw two doctors for diagnosis, but after Rowasa and Cotisone foam, which were not working this time, I was so exited and relieved to find this diet and mailing list. It has given me unmeasurable hope. I don't understand why it is not even mentioned on other UC sites?
It seems obvious to me that the cure has to be diet oriented. I must say that my digestive system has never been normal. I will never go on steroids!
13 Months But Who Is Counting?
Since I started on the SCD, things have improved steadily. I really did not know how poorly I felt from my CD until I reversed most of the symptoms from following the diet and started to feel like a "normal human being."
Perhaps the success on the diet isn't possible for everyone. To those lurking in cyberspace I would recommend that you try it, stick to it, and maybe it will work as well for you as it did for me.
A point of interest for anyone traveling in the Great Lakes Area. My wife and I started a B & B called the Tulip Tree Inn (Anglos, Indiana--upper NE corner [Michigan/Ohio/Indiana]). In addition to the ambiance of a 19th Century Victorian Queen Anne style home, we offer a SCD compliant breakfast option (including dry cottage cheese and homemade yogurt) for anyone on the diet in addition to menu selections appealing to those who are not following the diet.
Hi to all,
I'm glad to have found this list server now. I just started the SCD diet yesterday with high hopes.
Yesterday on the local public access channel in Calgary (Canada), there was a one and a half hour video showing her at a conference.
This must be a good sign :-D
I wish you guys were around two years ago when I had my second surgery for Crohn's. I only found Elaine's book a few weeks before, and I did try it for 2-3 weeks. However I was so sick by then that surgery was the only option. I spent five weeks in hospital, and got out two days before Christmas.
I've had Crohn's since I was nineteen, I am now 33. I was also diagnosed with Osteoporosis at 31, due of course to prednisone. I no longer trust doctors, although I am currently on 3g of Pentasa per day. Speaking of, I have to go see him in a half hour and will be talking to him about SCD and what he thinks. We all know what that will be...
* Dan Woods The University of Calgary *
* firstname.lastname@example.org Calgary, AB, CANADA, T2N 1N4 *
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:26:30 GMT
I have to say that it's great to see the scd list back. I don't understand
where the IBD Digest came from and although I am as interested as any of us
in learning about symptoms and cures, I wonder where the discussion
pertaining to the diet itself has gone. I have been on it for a bit over a
month and have noticed a few things. Lately my legs feel crampy, like if I
am stretching I can get a real bad tightenning of my calf muscles. I wonder
if this is a dietary deficiency. I think I read somewhere that it could be
from a lack of proteins? I have been eating fish, chicken, pork and beef.I
should probably get more exercise. A real important thing about the diet
that I've noticed is that because I am eating a limited variety of foods,
individual ones have more of a noticeable impact on my day to day
situation. I have had to cut out cheeses and nuts due to the gas the seem
to cause. I have had gas "problems" all my life, but now coupled wirth the
seemingly constant flow of fluids (small as it may be) I have to avoid the
chance if I am going to get out of the house. I am thinking about panty
liners or maybe Depends. The other thing I need to find out about the diet
is what can I snack on. What I miss most are the crackers and cookies and
chips and all the things I used to fill up on during the day. Don't get me
wrong, I am feeling better than I ever have in my life now that I am eating
better and more aware of what is going into my body. But I do miss the
recipies that used to be on the list. Anyone got any good ones? I am way
past the diarea stage and maybe I should star experimenting with dried
fruits ? One other question for you fellow SCDers. Does the bleeding ever
stop? How does the healing process seem to run for you? I am not in favor
of drugs, and am determined to cure this thing with diet. Should I be
taking more vitamins? What is suggested? When you talk about flare-ups, do
you mean a complete lack of symptoms between incidents, or just a calming
down of the symptoms for a period of time. I went for almost five years
between really bad episodes,even though I was aware of my condition off and
on during that time. But forabout eight months now it's never let up, and
for the last month since Ive been on the diet, it has settled into a
situation that although not painful , for the most part, is pretty
annoying. My Colitis is restricted to the end of the line and that may be
why it is so sensitive and annoying. I look forward each day to the
exchange of ideas on the scd list . seeya
Re: the diet
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:26:43 GMT
>"I should probably get more exercise".
Without a doubt, excercise is of upmost importance for both the physical
and the mental wellbeing.
>"I have had gas "problems" all my life, but now coupled with the
>seemingly constant flow of fluids (small as it may be) I have to avoid the
>chance if I am going to get out of the house. I am thinking about panty
>liners or maybe Depends."
I never left the house without extra underwear. Thanks for reminding me of
something to be thankful for. You tend to forget how bad it really was.
Hopefull, with time on the diet, you too will not have to worry about this.
>"The other thing I need to find out about the diet
>is what can I snack on. What I miss most are the crackers and cookies and
>chips and all the things I used to fill up on during the day."
As I mostly snack on nuts and cheese, and these don't seem to agree with
you, I'm not sure what to recommend. Probably you'd be best off with fresh
fruits & veggies.
>maybe I should star experimenting with dried fruits ?
Try a little at first. I find these hard to digest.
>One other question for you fellow SCDers. Does the bleeding ever
>stop? How does the healing process seem to run for you?
In the first year I did coninue to have episodes of bleeding, but they were
mild and shortlived. In the second year they became almost non existant. I
am currently about 28 months into the diet and unless I eat too much at a
sitting or something not quite "legal", I am totally symptom free.
Hope this helps.
Re: Bill, the diet
Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:48:59 GMT
"BILL" <email@example.com> wrote ...
> I have been on it for a bit over a month and have noticed a few things.
> Lately my legs feel crampy, like if I am stretching I can get a real
> bad tightenning of my calf muscles. I wonder if this is a dietary
> deficiency. I think I read somewhere that it could be from a lack of
> proteins? I have been eating fish, chicken, pork and beef. I should
> probably get more exercise.
My experience with leg cramps has been that I was told by a naturopath
it is a lack of calcium (or not enough absorbed). Since you are on
the SCD diet, cheese would be your best bet. However you mentioned
that it gave you gas and are not eating any now. The next thing to
try is something like OSCAL 500mg (or your local pharmacy brand). I
take two of these for my osteo problem.
* Dan Woods The University of Calgary *
* firstname.lastname@example.org Calgary, AB, CANADA, T2N 1N4 *
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