Letters from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet support group 1997 (16)

Re: food goes right thru
Tue, 6 May 1997 22:46:44 GMT

> >anyway, i don't understand how someone can get diarreha within minutes of
> >eating
> >something....the intestinal tract is soooo long...how can it happen so
> >fast??

Hi Ann,

this happened to me too - got to the stage of making sure the way to
the bathroom was clear before eating anything...

Anyway, my understanding is that when you eat something, your body
sort of makes room for it in your stomach by moving everything else
on. ie eating triggers/increases peristalic action. And, if your
bowel isn't happy with life, everything just passes through.



Re: food goes right thru
Tue, 6 May 1997 23:34:24 GMT

Hi everyone! As far as I know when you feel the urge to go right after a
meal, the food did not agree with you and it is giving you the feeling as
if you will have a bowel movement. The rumbling and the movements that
occurs in your intestines acts as if you need to go and of course as we all
know we don't need an invitation to go to the bathroom. I know it was more
elaborate when I read it from a book that I own, but I can't remember
exactly how they put it. I just remember that was the gist of it.

Good Luck!


Re: re food goes right through
Sun, 11 May 1997 3:01:22 GMT

>Hi everyone! As far as I know when you feel the urge to go right after a
>meal, the food did not agree with you and it is giving you the feeling as
>if you will have a bowel movement. The rumbling and the movements that
>occurs in your intestines acts as if you need to go and of course as we all
>know we don't need an invitation to go to the bathroom. I know it was more
>elaborate when I read it from a book that I own, but I can't remember
>exactly how they put it. I just remember that was the gist of it.
>Good Luck!

This is no mystery. As soon as you start chewing something in your mouth,
and swallowing, a wave of reflex nerve impulses goes down your whole
digestive tract. that is why most people void after a meal. However when
the bowel is inflamed, these implulses are magnified because in IBD there
is often a reversal of the motion of water out of the body into the bowels
rather than one of absoprtion. This is why the diarhea is loose. the normal
amount of peristalsis required to move a normal (dry movement) is far more
than what is required to move a loose one so the effect is more rapid
occuring a few minutes after eating. One can use this information to good
effect by taking 3-4 glasses of water on rising whther you have diarrhea or
not you can get most of the fecal matter out early in the day to give you
more energy (less self intoxication) during the day

regards michael

UC symptoms - Zombie State
Wed, 7 May 1997 0:32:38 GMT

To everyone,

I have been reading material at the SCD website and have been
inspired to participate. I have never known others with my
condition (UC) in the 20 years I've had it!

I will try to be brief. I have some questions about the diet. I
have been on it for 2 months. As soon as I started, my constant gas
went away. However, after 4-6 weeks my colon started bleeding, which
it hadn't done in a long time. I have eliminated cheese from my diet
now and that seems to help, but I am still battling my main symptoms:
intermittent dizzy spells, feverishness, and brainlessness, what I call
"the zombie state". I have dealt with this in various guises for a
long time, even though my colon wasn't bleeding. Of course, it is at
its worst at those times when my intestinal problems "heat up"
(bleeding, irregularity), and it generally corresponds to a
twitching/fluttering/discomfort sensation in my colon.

What I want to know is, do others with UC have these symptoms, or do
their symptoms primarily involve diarhea etc.? My goal is to become
free of this zombie state and get on with my life, not just to cure
the most serious manifestations of my intestinal problems. I have
always assumed that they go hand in hand, but I would appreciate feedback
from others about their experience with UC and the SCD
relative to this question. From what I have read of others' experience on
the website, my symptoms are (currently) much milder than most
people's, or else just different.

Another question: I read that slippery elm is approved by Elaine for
the diet, although I don't really understand how it could be. What about
aloe vera gel, which contains mucopolysaccharides? I was pretty
desperate the other day and tried some, and it did provide temporary
relief. Is it officially banned?

Brief history: Five years ago I gave up on regular medicine when
cortisone enemas weren't helping any longer, became a vegan and
improved my health somewhat with natural remedies such as colon
cleansing. I've been managing my worst zombie states by weekly
chiropractic/kinesiology treatments for two years and have been able
to resume a normal lifestyle. I had just decided that there was no cure and that I
needed to mentally reconcile myself to having this disorder forever
when I remembered hearing about Elaine's book earlier (a previous
chiropractor thought it didn't apply to me since I wasn't having
diarhea). Now I am dedicated to trying the diet for at least a year,
but I don't want to get my hopes up, because everything else I have
tried at best only relieved symptoms (which of course is infinitely
better than being sick, but not the same as being healthy).

Thanks for any feedback,

John Gonsalves

Re: Zombie State
Wed, 7 May 1997 2:04:29 GMT

Dear John,

Welcome to the group! I myself have never had an official diagnosis,
(exept for "stress"). My symptoms were mainly long term diarrhea (6
years) and loose stool combined with a lot of fatigue. All has improved
for me on the SCD (two months for me as well) but I still battle the
zombie state you speak of. I hate it. I feel so healthy now in
general, but have days when I wake up feeling like I weigh a thousand
pounds and my head gets in a fog. Sometimes it is worse when I have
eaten a lot of roughage or get slightly constipated (I've never had
bleeding). These days the perspective I have on it is that the zombie
state is somehow related to leaky gut -- which can happen worse during
acute stages of bowel disease and also seems to somtimes get worse
during healing because as the gut heals, toxins stay in the intestines
longer because things don't move through as fast.

What helps me is doing gentle yoga stretches (especially the bow
pose), taking epsom salt baths (which help draw accumulated toxins out
of the body), and recently, massaging my forearms and thighs (broad
strokes away from the heart) as Michael of this group has suggested.
Actually, that last thing has seemed to make a huge difference
sometimes. I've also just started taking psyllium regularly, which is
supposed to help cut down on toxicity as well. This is the only
understanding I have of the zombie state that has made sense to me, the
toxicity thing. But I am open to and welcome hearing other
perspectives, since I haven't licked it yet. I have a friend with IBS
who also gets like this, and both she and I still have these bad days,
even though we seem to be doing so great in general.

Take care,

Re: Zombie State
Wed, 7 May 1997 13:56:54 GMT

Dear John & Denise,
I'm not a doctor (don't even play one on TV), but my own analysis of the
"Zombie state" is this; Our bodies have an inherent weakness, either UC,
Crohns, Arthritis, blah blah blah. We share a host of auto immune diseases.
I find myself in that state even when I've had a bit too much to eat
(hence, suggestions of small frequent feedings). I think our bodies have to
work much harder than the norm & therefore when they are busy fighting to
sustain digestion or are fighting a relapse of the disease, or even when we
are coming down with a cold, our bodies have to work much harder at keeping
us healthy. What I think the "Zombie state" is, is battle fatigue pure &
simple. I've come to this conclusion purely by intuition and by listening
to my body. Although I consider myself to be currently healthy because my
colon is in excellent shape, I still have these arthritic symptoms I deal
with on a daily basis. One of the reasons I've stayed at my job, is that I
NEED a place to get up and go to each day. Sometimes I'm so fatigued that
simply staying in bed with the cover pulled up over my head seems the way
to go, but I beleive that for me it would be the beginning of the end. I'd
be curious at the groups feedback.
Always trying to live in the positive,

reply to John G - re: zombie feeling
Wed, 7 May 1997 22:17:50 GMT

> but I am still battling my main symptoms:
> intermittent dizzy spells, feverishness, and brainlessness, what I call
>"the zombie state".

To John G,
I have felt like that too, but mainly I feel it was due to anemia (low hemoglobin), and deficiencies caused by malabsorption. I don't know if that is the same as a "leaky gut", but I felt less spacey and could remember things better and concentrate more easily when my hemoglobin went up. The diet helps heal the gut which in turn allows for better absorption of nutrients, vitamins, and minerals. So the diet should help with this "zombie state". I also think taking a special multi-mineral supplement that is easily absorbed may have helped me.

>Another question: I read that slippery elm is approved by Elaine for
>the diet, although I don't really understand how it could be. What about
>aloe vera gel, which contains mucopolysaccharides? I was pretty
>desperate the other day and tried some, and it did provide temporary
>relief. Is it officially banned?

Elaine doesn't like to say yay or nay to many herbal supplements and what not. If it's not in the book, usually it means that Elaine has not tested or researched that item and we have to decide or test it out on ourselves. As for aloe vera, to me, it seems like a vegetable, and I would think it's ok, as long as it's pure. Regarding the ulmus althea (slippery elm), I don't know if Elaine ever "officially approved" it, but I suppose if people on the diet are using it without problems, it may be ok. I know it is supposed to be very soothing to inflamed tissue, so logically it should be good for us, but I don't know what the carbohydrate content is. Correct me if I'm wrong - anyone.

Good luck,

Re: Zombie State
Thu, 8 May 1997 15:50:22 GMT

Hi Rachel and everyone,

Yes - I know the "zombi" syndrom.

I've had UC for almost 7 years, though I was only diagnosed about a year

My regular doctor kept telling me my symptoms where caused by stress and

I wasn't diagnosed before I ended up in hospital, where the specialist
gave me a reprimand for not getting the proper treatement before !

Hmm.. where was I ? Oh yes zombi - I'm in the zombi state now. Extremely
tired, like exhausted. Totally incapable of concentrating and an urge to
just sleep. The zombi is always triggered by a flare.

I went to a party yesterday and I cheated. I had the "Honey glazed"
turkey that probably hadn't seen any real honey, spaghetti, cheese sauce
(it had flour) and an Irish coffee later in the evening.

Today I've been really sick with diarrhoea, pains and the zombi.

I didn't really have that much spaghetti or sauce or meat - there were
plenty of fresh delicious vegies.. I really didn't even want the
stuff..It was just a new couple and I REALLY DIDN'T want to explain
about my *condition*. Sigh..I really would like to be *normal* again.

I'm sorry - the zombi is always accompanied by black depression. I'll
try to be a little more positive. You - know I've been batteling
obessity for years, eating tons of complex carbohydrates like potatoes,
spaghetti and bread. I've actually LOST weight on the SCD !

I think it'll be a while before I cheat again! I wonder how long it will
take for my flare to subside. Should I start over I wonder ?

Thanks for listening, I think I'll go lie down now. :-)

Kris from Denmark, Europe.

Re: Zombie State
Thu, 8 May 1997 16:02:30 GMT

dear kris...
i can really empathesize with you...i understand the feelings...
i guess though, i'm really lucky...
i don't have to do a radical diet, i just modified..plus i got rid of
a lot of stress in my life...not enough sometimes...but it really

don't do anything to hurt yourself again...please...the price we pay
for stepping out of line is just too high...

arlene in istanbul

zombie depression / flaz oil
Thu, 8 May 1997 17:08:58 GMT

> the zombi is always accompanied by black depression.


I definitely have a problem with depression that accompanies "the
"zombie". I recently read about the herb St. Johnswort in Newsweek
being used for depression, and wonder if such treatments can also
work for people with UC (i.e. if depression, etc. is linked to
intestinal problems, can some treatment not linked to such problems
really work).

Re flax oil: Is anyone using this specifically to address
inflammation? How much? What about DHA capsules, which I recently
heard are more readily absorbed? I once experimented with about 1
1/2 Tablespoons a day (flax oil), but wasn't really tracking anti-inflammatory
effects at the time.

John/Berkeley, CA

Re: zombie depression / flax oil
Thu, 8 May 1997 17:48:09 GMT

Hi John,

I am continuing to play with dosage. Right now I am taking the
equivelant of 1T. of flaxseed oil in gelcap form, plus about a tsp. of
fish oil. So far, I have noticed an anti-inflammatory effect in the
form of a chronic excema condition improving, also my skin in general.

Can't tell about the bowel stuff, although that has been improving too
-- it's just that I'm taking psyllium right now and I think that is also
helping so I can't tell which helps more. By the way, I think the
latter really helps with inflammation, helps lubricate those ravaged
intestines! In general, I find that each thing I do that helps, adds to
the pie of healing, but that no one thing is a miracle cure -- the scd
comes close. :)

I have had experience with Hypericum. The dosage that is used for
depression is 300mg of a standardized supplement, 3 times a day. It
needs to be taken regularly and consistently -- after four weeks or so
the results will show up. It has to build up in your blood. Hypericum
helped me through a difficult time last fall when I was so discouraged
about my health, I was scrapin' bottom. There is quite a bit of
documentation about Hypericum helping as an anti-depressant, many books
out there. It is thought to act as a mild MAO which will increase your
serotonin levels. I went off of it about a month ago when I was
eliminating supplements because I was afraid of the starch mine possibly
contained. Although I still get the zombie state (sounds like a bad 'B'
movie), my depression didn't return. So there's my two cents!

Take care,
Davis, CA

on and off the diet
Thu, 8 May 1997 19:03:43 GMT

I have to admit that I've been tempting to give myself permission to cheat on
the diet at times. I seem to be different than a lot of people on this list
because I don't suffer symptoms every time that I cheat. Actually, I seem to
be able to cheat for a couple of weeks before symptoms show up. Although
who's to say what's really going on at the intestinal level and with my
immune system. So if I were to ever cheat I think I would do it for a few
days here and there, instead of going crazy for a few months straight.
I have also been tempted to introduce certain foods that aren't permitted and
find out if maybe my system is actually okay with them. As this may explain
why I seem to be able to cheat with no adverse affects. I know there is
someone in this group who eats rice and doesn't seem to have any problems.
But then I also think that each little cheat may set back my progress on the
diet in the long run and I think that maybe I should just follow Elaine's
recommendations and stick with the diet strictly until all symptoms have been
gone for over a year.
It is probably something that all of us on this diet struggle with. And I
don't think there is any easy answer. If there is one thing that I have
learned being in this group it's that we are all individuals and can't expect
the same things to work for all of us or assume that we will all end up
making the same choices.

Take care,
Tina (Ontario, Canada)

zombie state
Thu, 8 May 1997 22:48:51 GMT

I sympathize with those who suffer from that terrible tiredness that goes
along with IBDs. I think the very nature of these diseases causes more
toxins to be circulating in the blood which in turn causes the tiredness.
This is something I fight against continually. Also my naturopath tells me
that my liver is not functioning efficiently at clearing the toxins and so
I get to that "zombie" state. Small things that help are to do stretching
type excercises such as yoga as this stimulates the circulatory system and
helps the liver do its work. Also drinking lots of water helps to remove
the toxins.

To John C
Thanks for all your work on our behalf to get a new list server up and
running. I hope that you are recovering to better health after your set

To Mathew
Yes, I know that frustration of the diet not quite being a cure. It has
helped me wonderfully but I still get diarrhea about once a week as well as
rumbles and bloating imbetween times. My naturopath says that I have
protozoan parasites and that they are the cause of the problems. They have
an interesting life cycle where they burrow into the cells causing little
discomfort, then they break out into the lumen of the intestines to cause
problems again. He is treating me for this and I have been improving very
slowly. I suppose I can always hope that I'll be cured one day.
I wouldn't consider coming off the diet though, as it has helped me so much.

Good health


Away with the Zombie...
Fri, 9 May 1997 16:01:46 GMT

Hi y'all. This is my first time writing to the group. I just wanted to
say, for all you Zombie people out there (wierd expression, by the
way!), I am currently taking Floravital which is an iron liquid formula
and is doing a perfect job of giving me energy as well as nutrition.

I was in the depths of despair trying to find some sort of iron I could
tolerate and both my doctor and herbalist said iron would give me

But the doc said, "If we don't find you anything, you'll have to get a
regular injection in your bottom which might stain.. " Yeuch.

Fortunately, though, the herbalist suggested we take Floravital which is
the yeast free alternative (suitable, huh?) to Floradix -(the main
name). If any of you guys are curious about this, the address is,
15 Rivington Court

One more thing;Don't go thinking that you've got an illnes that is
always going to be such a pain. A good friend of mine said, "Vicky, You
just have a healthy alternative of a stomach compared to others!"

floravital / iron
Fri, 9 May 1997 16:29:00 GMT

Hi everyone,

I am curious about this idea of iron supplementation. Following a
recent posting on anemia, I browsed through Andrew Weil's book on
natural healing. He claims that the only people who should take iron
are those losing a lot of blood. He says that the body cannot
otherwise rid itself of iron, and buildups can be toxic.

I wonder if there is "invisible bleeding" involved in ulcerative
colitis; if at times of low inflammation the colon is still bleeding
but the blood is not obvious or visible. This might account for
ongoing anemia and the visible benefits of iron supplementation.

Berkeley, CA

Re: Mucus and Bloating
Mon, 12 May 1997 7:40:25 GMT

stellar1@pacbell.net wrote:
> Hi group,
> I'm not asking anyone to play doctor, but has anyone out there
> experienced more bloating or passing more mucus when you seem to be
> healing? I've been on the diet for two and a half months.
> Lately I've been getting extremely bloated (like there's a heavy stone
> in my stomache and intestines), out of the blue, unrelated to foods I
> eat. It is not just a little bloating, it's really bad. Sometimes
> while I have it, I get pretty light headed, which is a problem at work.
> Then it passes and my energy is as strong as ever -- then I get really
> puzzled.
> It's been happening since I started taking psyllium, which really
> improved my bowel movements, from constipation to regular, but every
> once in a while I pass what look like mucus in my otherwise regular
> stool. I don't know if this is good or bad, or what it means. I
> stopped taking the psyllium 2 days ago to see if it would just stop
> happening, thought maybe I was taking too much or something,. But last
> night I woke up in the middle of the night so bloated that I just had to
> lay there for several hours. I haven't gotten this much gas out of the
> blue for five years. I am hoping it is the healing response going on --
> or else maybe I have some virus or something. Once again, I want to
> emphasize that I'm not asking anyone to play doctor, but if you've had a
> simillar problem or perspective, on bloating or passing more mucus when
> you seem to be healing, please let me know.
> Denise
> Davis, CA

Hi Denise,

I have made the same experience over the years: The more active the
inflammation of the bowel was (mucus and blood) the less bloating I had,
and when I got better (less mucus and blood and firm stool) I got more
bloating. I don`t know why.


Re: Mucus and Bloating
Tue, 13 May 1997 3:20:03 GMT

Dear Denise:

I know exactly what you mean. I will be on the diet 3 months this week.
I thought the problem was trying to add in vegetables to my otherwise meat, eggs
and cheese diet. But maybe it is the healing process.

Or maybe it is the 2-3 month plateau Elaine mentions in her book.

I'm trying not to be discouraged, but I was feeling really good about the
bloating going down. I really like it that people stopped asking me when the
baby is due.

Let's give it a little more time. As for me, I'm going back to the
beginning with few add-ins.

Best wishes.

Philadelphia, PA

Re: Dextrose
Mon, 12 May 1997 16:12:03 GMT

This is a very un-scientific thought, but it seems to me that I get
discomfort or even exacerbated symptoms when I eat a sweeter diet, or a
larger amount of honey, etc... I think moderation is the key. I am
resigning myself to the fact that there is enough sweetness in, let's
say for instance an acorn squash, that there's no need to add anything
to it to make it more palatable. I think "sweetness" in itself can be
an enemy, that perhaps, simple or not, there's too much there, it's
dense or something, too much to handle. Sounds crazy, huh? well, it's
a free world! Freedom of the press goes to those who own one!!
Matt in Atlanta

Sweeter Diet & Discomfort
Mon, 12 May 1997 17:11:23 GMT

Hi Matt,

Many of us with intestinal problems, due to the long term imballances in
our flora -- also have overgrowths of yeast that tend to feed on sugars
like honey. I myself have to limit the sweet stuff as well. But
gradually I have been able to eat more of it -- more fruit. I look
forward to the day I can eat honey! Just to let you know, it's not
completely unscientific, what you are thinking.

Davis CA

Mon, 12 May 1997 17:20:11 GMT

>> I think "sweetness" in itself can be
an enemy, that perhaps, simple or not, there's too much there.<<

I have stopped trying to make everything sweet in my diet, and have found
it's not that hard. I eat all fruit unsweetened. I remember as I child my
mother slicing fresh strawberries and then stirring in lots of sugar. I eat
my fruit plain now and once your taste buds adjust, you will find it plenty
sweet just like that. I eat the yogurt with no honey added and it tastes
just fine, has a tang all its own, my squash with no honey etc. I use no
artificial sweeteners, if I want a soft drink I drink club soda "straight
up". I have also cut out all added salt, my butter is unsalted and I have
found a source of unsalted cheese, I add no salt to my cooking. I am sure
that I still get lots of salt as it is in canned tomatoes, canned tuna,
sundried tomatoes, pickles, and absolutely every other supermarket product
there is. Can't say that any of this has particularly helped me, but it is
nice to stop struggling to find a way to sweeten things, and it is an
adventure in gastronomy to learn to enjoy food as it is.

To the person who suggested "Tahini Gravy" thanks so much for a great new
taste and a highly nutritious idea. I use it on all my vegetables now, and
I skip the butter.

I enjoyed the article on the Omega fats and am now experimenting with
rebalancing the fats in my life.

One thing I can say about all of this, at long last that annoying white
coating is disappearing from my tongue. Would like to give up fruit and
cheese to see if I can kick the last of the Candida out, but so far can't
resist them.

Thanks to all, and good health -

Re: Dextrose
Thu, 15 May 1997 22:55:54 GMT

I was at a salad bar recently and read labels on the little salt packets.
I noticed that what I thought was pure sodium choloride contained a few
chemicals (presumably to help granulation) and DEXTROSE. So now the salt
co.s are putting sugar in the salt, and the sugar co.s are putting salt
with the sugar!

Re: nut flour, mayo, sugar analysis of foods
Fri, 16 May 1997 16:35:53 GMT

Guy Fortier wrote:
> Hi,
> I discovered the scd web site while trying to find information on
> carbohydrates. I have been having considerable digestive problems
> for around 4 months now and had become suspicious of starchy foods
> (potatoes especially seemed to cause me to crash). The web site
> was a godsend. I immediately rushed out and found Elaine's book
> and have read it through in the last day. I've been on the diet
> for the last few days now and immediately notice improvement -
> no more cramps and gas.
> I have a few questions...
> 1. I've read a few posts about getting almond flour from California.
> Does anyone know of a similar Canadian source (preferably Eastern
> Canada)?
> 2. Is there some gadget one can buy to make one's own nut flour?
> Some time ago we tried using a coffee grinder to do this but
> the motor burned out after a short while. I suspect almonds are
> tougher than coffee beans.
> 3. I saw a recipe in the book for homemade mayonnaise. However
> it uses a raw egg. What do people do to avoid salmonella?
> 4. Does anyone know a web site or some other source of info on
> what particular sugars are in each food? There are numerous
> nutrition web sites which give nutrient breakdowns but they
> never seem to go further than saying how much carbohydrate is
> in a particular food. Similarly I understand from Elaine's book
> there are different kinds of starches. Is there any source
> of information on which type is in each starchy food?

Hi Guy,

Welcome to the group. I will take a stab at answering a few of your
questions. About the raw egg in Mayo -- in my experience, this is the
tried and true way people have been making mayo for decades, if not
centuries. The vinegar (you can even add an extra tablespoon, I do)
probably helps with any bad bacteria. Mayo stays fresh in the fridge
quite well, I don't think, personally, you need to worry about that raw
egg. Maybe others have a different opinon.

In regards to grinding nuts, I use my blender. It's not a high tech
blender either, just your regular garden variety blender. The nuts I
have used have not been that hard. I find coffee beans much harder than

Glad to hear you are feeling better on the diet. I've been on it almost
three months and I too feel a lot better.

Davis, CA

Mailing lists
Sat, 17 May 1997 15:46:30 GMT

Hi List,

I've just joined. Some of you may know me from the newsgroups. I have
celiac disease and follow a very strict gluten-free diet, and have also
been dairy-free for a year now. Since I believe in the importance of GF
strictness, I'd be happy to help and answer questions in this area.

I am now also a listowner of several mailing lists, all of which are
somewhat applicable to the people here. They are:

NO-MILK. While Elaine does allow certain types of dairy, like grains this
is a new food to the human diet. Because we have not fully adapted to milk,
it is often the source of allergies, intolerances, and medical problems.
This list is mostly parents of children that have to avoid dairy because of
allergies or autism.

The PALEODIET mailing list is a RESEARCH oriented list. It is
semi-moderated and has as subscribers all of the leading researchers in the
field. The most interesting archives to read.

The PALEOFOOD mailing list is an unmoderated SUPPORT list for people trying
to follow a Paleolithic diet in today's age. It is not yet a week old. A
Paleolithic diet excludes grains, dairy, and beans.

More information on any of the lists can be obtained by sending the commands:


in the body of a message to LISTSERV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

Subscription to a listserv list is SUBscribe [listname] Yourfirstname
Yourlastname in a message body.

Searchable archives of past posts can be found at:


The listserv also allows the building of file archives. Quite a few files
have been put at the NO-MILK list and more on them can be found by sending
GET NO-MILK FILELIST to the listserv address.

I gather the majordomo system this list runs on does not have archives and
Mik Aidt is filling in? (This is my first majordomo list.) In the welcome
message it does say that files are available from Deborah Dowd, but I
gather that is no longer correct?


This and that
Mon, 19 May 1997 15:59:57 GMT

Welcome Jennifer a fellow IBS sufferer. You are so fortunate to have a Dr
who recommends the SCD, I wish there were a few more MD's who did this
instead of putting the condition down to stress alone. But I can empathize
with your concerns about weight loss. Many of us in this group experienced
this at the beginning especially before nut products are introduced. My
solution to this was to snack regularly as well as to eat some starchy
vegetables at my main meal. My snacks were made up of ripe bananas and
cheese. Easy to have any time of the day. My weight stabalized around the
3rd month when I could fully include nuts and yogurt into my diet. Don't
be concerned about the plant fats in nuts, olives and advocados etc. These
kind of fats are healthy and help to ofset the increased animal fat intake
of this high protein diet. Personally I believe these plant fats are the
reason that this diet doesn't produce high cholesterol levels that might be
expected from the eggs, cheese and meat.

Welcome also to Neil. To answer some of your questions. Yes ham is
allowed IF it is prepared with no starch or sugar. You have to ask
questions and read labels. It's the same with bacon. I live in Ontario
and I've found a supermarket brand of both ham and bacon with no sugar that
I seem to tolerate.
Olives and saurekraut prepared in lactic acid are wonderful as this is an
alternative source of acidophilus bacteria which is found in the yogurt
that we make.
As far as Dry curd cottage cheese, I've never been able to find it but the
farmers cheese, again available in the supermarket in Ontario, is a
substitute when making bread.

John, You asked about alcohol. Personally I find the occasional drink
does not irritate my symptoms but it makes me incredibly tired.

Carol W. I'm convinced that bad sleep patterns can go with IBDs. I have
read that the toxins produced by the bacteria can cause nervous upset such
as anxiety and poor sleep patterns. I think Elaine attributes nightmares
and behavioural problems in children to the proliferation of the
undesirable bacteria.

Hope this helps, As ever I enjoy reading the supportive posts put out by
this group.

Good health

Amanda (Ont Canada)

Gottschall's diet
Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:21:38 GMT

Great support group!

Started the diet three days ago to control a bacterial
overgrowth in the intestines as reported in the attached
files. I had surgery twenty years ago and gave up eighteen
inches of the small bowel. Was this bacteria responsible
the first time I was diagnosed with Crohn's? More than

Carl W. Tuttle

May 8, 1997


Great Smokies Diagnostic Laboratory
63 Zillicoa St.
Ashville, NC 28801
Attn: Margaret Suen

Dear Ms Suen,

Please take a moment if you will to read the attached file concerning
probiotic technology licensed by the USDA.

Diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome one year ago Iam now convinced
that most all of my symptoms were a result of an overgrowth of
freundii identified by your lab in December 1996.
Chronic sinus infections treated with six antibiotics proved ineffective
and only sterilized my intestinal tract of frendly bacteria.(Bactrim,
Lorabid,Zithromax twice,Biaxin,Augmentin) By the time I took the correct
antibiotic Cipro, as suggested by your sensitivity chart, the bacteria
so entrenched that a ten day dose could not eradicate this pathogen.

I speak from experience when I say that this bacteria can be devistating
to ones health. It feeds on sugar and is capable of leaving the
tract taking up residence in the mucus membranes of the sinus and lungs.
A severe respiratory infection could not be treated with yet another
antibiotic in February of this year. Fortunately intravenous hydrogen
peroxide arrested its progress.

Eliminating sugar from the diet similar to the anti-candida diet and
citrus seed extract has proven to be most effective in controlling the
growth of this bacteria. Any cheating whatsoever on the sugar intake
proves disastrous. A recent follow-up CSA shows a reduction of the
from previous levels. Adding close to 100 billion Acidophilus and
bacteria per day for the past two months has increased the levels of
healthy bacteria shown on the CSA results.

Conventional medicine has overlooked this bacteria for years as I have
plagued with IBS and diarrhea. I now have one bowel movement a day and
no longer bedridden with devestating fatigue. Iam concerned however with
where else this bacteria has traveled,(pancreas,gall
I cannot stop the citrus seed extract or within three to five days
begin to return. Considering another antibiotic at this point may end up
reversing the progress seen thus far.

The point Im trying to relay here is the seriousness of this pathogen
what it is capable of. Which takes me back to the attached file
the use of Citrobacter freundii in a probiotic bacterial culture
to young chicks to competitively inhibit Salmonella bacteria in their
intestinal tracts.

Why would the USDA approve one pathogen to replace another? Salmonella
Enteritidis is able to infect the ovaries of hens and invade the egg as
forms. Could Citrobacter freundii have that capability? Certainly fecal
material can contaminate the outside of a chicken carcass or egg. This
technology has been licensed to Continental Grain Co.(Duluth, MN.)and
Specialties Co.(Dundee,IL). Milk Specialties Co. has a product called
I have requested data sheets. It is not known what Continental Grain Co.
has done with this technology.

This bacteria is seen quite frequently as reported by Dr. Jorgensen`s
office. I read on your WEB page that Barry Smith author of "The Poop is
the mail" also tested positive for this pathogen. Although the article
quite comical it has been no laughing matter for me I assure you. Could
chicken and eggs be a major source of this bacteria? The Department of
may not recognize the seriousness of this pathogen or even be testing
for it.
I think this requires further investigation.

I would like to hear from you regarding this issue. Please feel free to
Email me or call directly at (617)275-0850x249 I have supporting
for all subject matter mentioned in this letter.

CarlW. Tuttle


The USDA announced in June 1995 the licensing of competitive probiotic
technology for prevention of
Salmonella contamination in chickens to Continental Grain Co. This
apparently involves licensing of 5,340,577
and/or 5,308,615. The database record for 5,308,615 follows:

Probiotic for Control of Salmonella

Pat. No.: 5,308,615; Date: May 3, 1994; Lab: College Station, TX
Inv.: Nisbet, D.J.; DeLoach, J.R.; Corrier, D.E.
Probiotic bacterial cultures administered to young chick are
useful treatments to competitively inhibit
pathogenic Salmonella bacteria in the intestinal tract of chickens
and other poultry. The probiotic includes populations
or cultures of substantially biologically pure bacteria, including
at least one Lactobacillus species; one or both of
Lactococcus lactis, and Citrobacter freundii; and at least one of:
one or more Enterococcus, Bifidobacterium,
Propionibacterium and Escherichia species. The probiotic is
administered to the fowl in an amount effective for
inhibiting Salmonella colonization.

The invention also provides a method for isolating
probiotics which are effective for controlling or inhibiting
Salmonella colonization of fowl, from fecal droppings or cecal
contents of adult fowl. The droppings or cecal contents
are combined with a culture medium and incubated without dilution
(i.e. batch culture) under anaerobic conditions; the
resultant culture is subjected to continuous flow conditions until a
steady state is achieved; and the steady state culture
may be recovered for use as a probiotic.

Status - The USDA announced the licensing of competitive
probiotic technology in June 1995 to Continental
Grain Co., presumably on a nonexclusive basis. This licensing
apparently involves this patent and/or another patent
(5,308,615) by several of the same inventors. The licensed method
involving spray or drinkng water administration of
enteric bacteria derived from adult chickens to young chicks has
been shown to reduce Salmonella contamination of
carcasses from 90% to 10%.

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