Debate about the newSCD Mailing list

Catching up: The discussion about the new SCD mailing list on this page was triggered from another discussion about SCD and celiac disease which lead to a fax from Elaine Gottschall, and a long discussion about the spirit of the list which, eventually, made some members of the groups form this new mailing list...


Dear Denise & all,
Yes there is a new list. The address is Let me just go over a little history. I don't recall just how I first found Debbie Dowd on the web, but we were writing each other often. We once mentioned that we were writing several people on the subject of the SCD (she even more than I) and how much easier it would be to just CC everyone and that's how it all began. We had a great time, sharing recipes and ideas on living with the SCD.
After some time Michael generously offered to make it all easier by using a listserver which eliminated all the CC ing and automatically kept up with the changes (people coming in and out). I'm not sure why Michael had to stop running the list after about a year or so, but one door closed and another one opened.
John Chalmers offered to pick up where Michael left off. We kept up a lively dialogue, but the problem began when a lot of discussion went on about things other than, and opposing to the SCD.
Although things seem to have quieted down a lot, Elaine, myself and others wanted a list that was exclusively meant to address the issue of the SCD. A friend of mine who owns a company that manages listservers, offered to manage this list at a deep discount. So here we are. I don't know if the Maelstrom address will continue to exist. That depends if there is a need for it and/or if John wants to continue running it. Meanwhile this site exists for the discussion of the SCD. There's really no-one "running" it. Hopefully it will run automatically and be driven by the need of those of us that wish to use it.

Welcome message of the new list

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new list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 1:03:44 GMT


Dear All,
I discussed with John whether or not the old list will remain active. He says it will stay on for a few days just for the straglers, but this address is to be the new home of the SCD list. Please change the address you have from the mailstrom one to

new list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 2:34:58 GMT

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:51:12 -0700
Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU>
From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM>

Subject: new list

To Rachel and John,

I've held my tongue during this recent list upset, but I feel that I need to respond to the way you've created a new list.

First, I'm confused by your saying, Rachel, that John is going to keep the old list active for a few days for stragglers. It was my understanding that Don was the list owner and therefor the one to decide whether or not to keep the list going.

Rachel, you're free to start your own list, of course. But speaking for myself, I was getting a lot of value from this current one, and will stay on it as long as it is active. I've been on the diet six months. I improved dramatically within days of starting, but I've stayed pretty much at the same place for several months now. I KNOW that's a better place than I'd be at if I weren't on the diet, but I want the opportunity to talk about and hear other options with and from others who are on the diet.

I can empathize with Elaine for all the critcism she's endured from the medical establishment over the years. However, I can't understand why she does not seem to want to see if the diet can be improved. Maybe it can't, but then again, maybe it can. In all of my 48 years I've yet to meet an infallible human being, so as brilliant as he may have been I'd be very surprised if Dr. Haas was one. That's not to detract from what he did, but it is to say, why not build on it?

I'm rambling a bit, but I am upset by the recent turn of events. The SCD diet is a good thing, and has helped a lot of people, including myself. However, what's really important is not the diet itself, but PEOPLE getting and staying healthy. From some of the postings I've seen lately it seems to me that that has been forgotten. I'm not sure what rules should be used as guidelines for discussion, but I'd rather rely on my delete key than see restrictions imposed.

Anyway, I will stay subscribed to the new list, but I definitely want to see the present one continue.


Tom Robinson <>

Dear Tom,
I am so sorry that this has upset you. That was never my intention. John went to Don with this list. To my understanding Don became a list owner because he supplied the knowledge and equipment to run that list. He also obviously has a personal interest because of his own diet and celiac. Frankly the tone of the list changed and I beleive Don had a lot to do with that. He has knowledge and information, but it is not geared to the Specific Carbohydrate Diet which was the original purpose of this list. Perhaps he will decide to maintain the list in spite of Johns pulling out. That is not for me to say. You may decide to benefit from both schools of thought. I know that Elaine is a staunch purist about this diet and and it is her dedication to this diet that has saved my life, along with countless others. For this reason I agree with her that a site reserved solely for discussion of this diet is needed.
As an aside, I was speaking to another person with UC recently and we were comparing horror stories. I told her that one day before I found this diet, I was standing on a train platform waiting for a train that would take me to the city to meet my husband and freinds to attend a concert. As the train was pulling in, my body betrayed me and I had a small accident that resulted in soiled underwear (where, but here can I discuss this). As the train came closer, I seriously considered stepping in front of it and ending my miserable existance. I couldn't stand another moment of blood, pain, mucous and all it involved. That was the absolutly lowest day of my illness. Once I boarded the train, I stood in a filthy bathroom, my feet sticking to that disgusting floor as I changed into the spare underwear I always carried with me. Shortly there-after I found salvation in the SCD. I have no doubt that if I hadn't, the temptation to die would have eventually won. I've had 2 & 1/2 wonderful productive years of life since I started the diet. This other person told me that she was one week away from having her colon removed when she found the diet. It is salvation from these kinds of hell that make some of us want to keep the diet and the discussion of it pure and this was the motivation behind starting a new list. Regardless of your decision to stay or go (and I do hope you decide to stay), I want you to know and hopefully understand my own role in the move.

Re: new list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 4:19:06 GMT

Dear Rachel,

Your story about the SCD saving you from ending up taking your life is very touching. My story, which you avoided responding to, is that initially my CD improved dramatically on the SCD, but then stopped improving in spite of following it as religiously as I was able. And there are a lot of people like me, who unfortunately aren't experiencing the remarkable recovery you did. What do you suggest we do? Count our blessings and take prednisone when we need it? Or maybe see if by sharing information and experiences we can improve on the diet Dr. Haas came up with decades ago?? And who knows? Maybe the diet could be changed so that your other IBD symptoms would improve like your colon has. Maybe not, but we won't find out unless we keep our minds open.


Dear Tom,
I guess that not all responses to the diet are the same. I wish that yours had been as dramatic as mine. Maybe your improvement will continue on the SCD itself. Maybe you need to look for more answers to supplement your cure and I encourage you to look in every direction for releif. This new list is for the Specific Carbohydrate diet. I still contend that for many people this diet itself, unchanged, undiluted is the answer and for those people, the introduction of alternative therapies is confusing and unproductive. If I didn't find the degree of success I've had with the SCD, I'd surely be looking into other answers and I continue to do so for my other symptoms.

Re: Welcome to SCD-list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:21:19 GMT


I am currently more than a little confused about what is going on with
the mailing list(s) to discuss the specific carbohydrate diet.

Evidently a new list has been created and I have been automatically
subscribed to it.

Question 1. Does the new list ( replace the old

If the answer to question 1 is "no", then I have the following questions:

Question 1a. Why was I automatically subscribed to the new list?
Even though I very likely would have subscribed to the
new list on my own, I feel that it is a bit improper
to automatically add me to a list without asking me.

Question 1b. Why is there a need for two lists?

I subscribed to the list SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU because I was
considering starting the SCD and I thought it would be helpful
to be on a mailing list with others using the diet. I must admit
that I am a little disapointed in all of the discussion over what
is appropriate for the list. I have found the posts related to the
diet quite informative. I do find that the attitude that only the
diet in its 100% pure form can be discussed to be somewhat of
an elitist attitude. I understand that the mailing list was
created to discuss the diet, but my feeling is that as long as
we don't stray to far from that topic and that the various
members of the list are getting the support and information
that they want, then the list is performing a good service.
Maybe I am wrong, but I get the impression that the new list
was created because some people did not like the way the old
list was going. If that is so, and the list was created by
putting all the old members on it, is anything going to change?
Or is the purpose to alienate certain members of the list?

I think it needs to be explained more clearly why the second
list was created and what the purposes of each list are.

Thank you.

Tom Stone

Re: new list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:23:50 GMT

Sorry to butt in ,but it seems to me that what is needed is 2 lists. From
my limited time of involvement here, I would guess that It wouldn't be too
very hard to get Don Wiss to run his own list. As much as he seems to know,
and as eager as he is to share his knowledge, maybe you should be
contacting him in this regard. For myself, I spend time in many other
places online (and find out much useful information), and I see no reason
that this list need be a one stop shop for all your IBD needs. I don't mind
the expression of different viewpoints here or anywhere else, but if the
name calling and vindictiveness that was taking over the previous list goes
away on this one then the move will definitely be worth it (Steve Hooker)

New list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:27:48 GM

Dear Kim and All,

Personally, I was finding it difficult to be in a group that was being very
vocally led by someone who is not on the diet. And who, as we have all
heard by now, prefers the paleolithic diet over the SCD. He feels free to
take pot shots at Elaine, which I feel is totally inappropriate for "an SCD
listowner." And talk about censorship! How can you dialogue on an even
plane with someone who threatens to bump and monitor? I don't care to
belong to a list owned by someone in the business of accumulating lists. Is
there some business angle to this that I'm not aware of? Let's get back to
being our own group for our own reasons. That is what this new group is


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:33:38 PDT
From: Kim Endres <kendres@RESDYN.COM>

Subject: Re: new list

Here's a suggestion that may accomodate the sometimes conflicting needs of different list members.

I was a subscriber to another list that had an analogous problem where sometimes separate but related subjects were raised. The solution there was not to create an entirely new list, but to use the SUBJECT heading to alert the list members to the content of the message. We could come up with a convention that, if used to prefix a subject, would let people know whether or not they want to read it. And if someone wants to wander from SCD orthodoxy, the subject prefix could help eliminate confusion on the part of people who want to strictly follow SCD. These prefixes, once agreed upon, could be part of the welcome message sent to new subscribers. I haven't been around long enough to have a good idea of what prefixes would be needed. Anyone else have ideas?

Also, some email handlers offer the ability to filter messages based on Subject, so if someone were totally uninterested in some subjects, they could simply discard those messages.

Anyone else think that this might work and help the present situation?


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:07:34 -0700
From: Dempsey <stellar1@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: New List

Hi everyone,

I just want to, somewhat wearily, add my voice to the commentary about
the new list change.

The way this has been handled has inspired a lot of confusion and more
riled feelings, which we didn't really need right now. The way it is,
feels like an extension of the previous flame war and hurt feelings
instead of an administrative decision to improve the quality and
efficiency of the SCD list. It now feels like the group is splintering.

I'm also concerned that it sets a dangerous precedent that this is how
we work out our problems, that the next time there's a flame war,
someone else will start a new list again and THIS is how we lose
people. It definitely is like starting over again. It weakens the

I would agree that the tone of the list has changed since it crashed and
started up again on the new list server with the new owners, which has
been unfortunate and I don't completely understand why. Michael dropped
the list without ever explaining what happened and we (I say we because
there was a lot of communication back and forth between a lot of us
trying to figure out what to do) really had to scramble to get it
started again. I am so grateful that Don stepped in and got it
functioning again, even IF I didn't always agree with everything he
said. I didn't agree with everything Michael said either. No big

Even though Don had some strong opinions, there's no way he was leading
the list any more than anyone else. He may have been dominating it
there for awhile, but I'd like to know how you can avoid that kind of
thing happening on any list? And in my recollection, Don never
threatened to bounce anyone off the list. All I remember is he made a
comment about how he wouldn't tolerate Dr. Holland on the list (he said
it, to my eyes, more like a joke, that was in defense of this list).
Any of us could make an off-hand comment like that and have it start to
take on a life of it's own.

I know this change is under way and is going to happen, and quite
frankly, I am just happy and grateful to have a list, period. But I
want to say again what has wisely been said by others in recent days,
that I hope that rather than limiting the discussion or starting a new
list, in the future we could encourage of each other to be courteous to
one another and to respect that we are all entitled to our opinions. To
work out constructive solutions to the problems we face rather than
starting over with a supposedly clean slate. I really hope this works
out for the best.

By the way, I think Kim's idea about having the SUBJECT headings is a
good one and may help things out in the future.

Best wishes everyone for calmer list days in the future,


Re: Welcome to SCD-list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:05:33 GMT

Dear Tom, Kim and everone,
I'm sorry for the confusion that this change is causing. Basically the new
list is meant to replace the old list. You signed on for the discussion of
the Specific Carbohydrate diet and that is the intention of this forum.
John, who was given a copy of the old list from Michael for the purpose of
continuing this forum agrees that a new home is needed for this group
(John?). Therefore the change. He had brought in additional help to help
run the previous list. The person was not on the diet and had some
conflicting veiws about the diet. This is not to say that what he had to
offer had no validity. I don't know. I am strictly a supporter of the SCD
because it has proved lifesaving in value to me. Problems began when
difference of opinion escalated into threats of bouncing people off the
list I don't know if the old list is going to stay in place, but the people
respnsible for re-instating the list to begin with, myself John and others
plan to align themselves with the new site. If the old site stays in place,
those that are ambiguous about the diet will have will have an extra web
site from which to obtain information and make their own decisions about
the value of the advise given. Please, please lets try to overcome this
political vein and go back to the business of discussing the diet. None of
us, myself included need the emotional turmoil that recent events have
brought on.

Two lists
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:38:46 GMT

It's a shame that we have a splinter group forming a new list in order
to maintain some kind of purity of the SCD. This week marks my one
year anniversary on the diet, and I, like Tom, have found that it only
goes so far. I have been religiously following the diet for my UC.
Right from the second day, I noted greatly improved symptoms and
continued to improve over the year. My scope in February showed a 95%
improvement. However, over the entire time I have had to take
prednisone in amounts varying between 2.5 and 10mg. Since I don't
consider myself in that 25% or whatever that will not benefit from the
diet (after all, I am doing better), I suspect that some kind of
additional alteration in my diet is necessary. Whether this
adjustment will be in the area of dairy products remains to be seen.
I am interested in the idea, posed by the paleo folk, that my
ancestors of a few thousand years ago did not eat anything made from
cow milk.

I don't quite understand why any questioning of Elaine is prohibited.
And, for those few of you are 100% healed by the diet, why talk about
the SCD at all? I would think you would just go on to other parts of
your lives. Since I am able to control my chronic asthma with new
medications, it is not a bother to me and I no longer think about it.
Will the new list involve censorship of messages?

Regards, Bart Hansen

Re: Rachel's views
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:45:57 GMT

Hi Rachel and others,

I too have been biting my tongue on the latest issues with the
SCD list, no more. Rachel, IMHO (not an attack) you handled this
situation inappropriately. In the majority of your beliefs and
your stance on the SCD, I agree with you about the list.

So Rachel, do believe me when I say that I am on your side.

I feel that NONE of us would be on the SCD diet if it weren't
for IBD. This diet is a neccessity for most of us, not merely
a choice. My choice was made in seeking an alternative to all
medication and prevention of future need for surgery. You may
believe this diet to work 100% followed as is, yet I am not YOU
or anyone else on this list. We are all UNIQUE individuals with
varying degree of problems to deal with daily.

I enjoyed some of Don's informative insight such as recent issues
on butter alternative, BOAR's brand hotdog not ok for SCD, or
other hidden ingredients. For this, he was helpful. However, I
do agree with most that his counter-views towards the diet
(preference for Paleo and rebutals for Celiac) were inappropriate.
This includes his degrading personal testimonials. Testimonials
on not science, yet his view was "prove it" which classifies him
like ignorant medical doctors who do not believe that the personal
experience of REAL people (not textbooks) matters the most.

So Rachel, do believe me when I say that I am on your side. I do
hope, however, that not just how to implement or sharing recipes
will be the ONLY focus in this list. I do NOT care about medical
drug questions, although (like me) some need it adjunct to SCD.
I do like vitamin discussion, or IBD sympton (gas, heartburn,
aches, edema, ...) questions and how others deal with it.

Thanks... Dan.

* Dan Woods The University of Calgary *
* Calgary, AB, CANADA, T2N 1N4 *

Two lists
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:19:04 GMT

Bart, I am with you. Everyone is different. I am a firm believer in
keeping a open mind in regards to medical conditions. My husband has UC
and has been following the diet. He is still on meds but his flareups are
much less severe now so I know it has helped. He never had UC so severe
that his colon was at risk for coming out. Not all people on this diet
have the life threatening variety. I think figuring out what works for
individual people is what counts. Everyone wants to get better...that's
the goal isn't it. I myself might be on this diet soon. I never even
realized I had a problem until being on this list.


win win situation
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:04:04 GMT

How does this sound? The NEW list is specifically for people with IBD
who wish to follow the SCD and get feedback from Elaine if and when it
is available, to exchange new recipes, get support and encouragement,
impart what's working/what's not working, and other technical aspects of
the SCD diet. The OTHER (Don's) list can be an exchange of ideas for
members of the medical profession, microbiologists, regular folks etc...
and not be specifically the SCD, but address other diets, technical
information, medical remedies, relating to IBD. There is no reason that
enlightening information, debate, support and encouragement surrounding
the SCD can't take place on the old list, it can be an outlet for "truth
seekers" who wish to persue means of validating or invalidating Elaine's
diet. (Dr. Haas', whatever). Since this diet is one of the few
solutions for IBD'ers, it stands to reason that a lot of discussion on
the "old" list will revolve around Elaine's work. I personally wish
that both lists will remain, and I will expect to glean useful
information from both. This way, Everyone's needs are met.

Matthew Cirillo <>

Re: win win situation
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:11:36 GMT

If Don's list is to be a sort of general IBD discussion group,
then doesn't that overlap with the purpose of the newgroup?


Re: Welcome to SCD-list
Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:01:33 GMT

I agree with Tom Stone in his comments about automatically being
included in the subscribe list of the

Who died and gave the folks in Long Island the feeling that everyone is
unhappy with the StJohns SCD digest. Therefore they create a new list
and I should be enthralled with their comments and points of view about
SCD. In my case I am offended by their arrogance in making such an
assumption on my behalf..


Re: Thanks and question
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 3:21:31 GMT


Thank you for this undertaking, already the tone of the discussion is
consistent with the SCD diet being the primary focus. We assume that, with
getting the old list from John that we are on the new list. I would like to
unsubscribe Don W. list and make sure that we are on the right list. If we
unscubscribe, do we send to "" or do we assume that
with the passage of time, Don W. will delete us all from the list. If this
has been answered already, I oplogise, Thanks again, the true nature of the
list is back!!

Partridges, Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Thanks and question
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:22:45 GMT

Dear Allan,
Thanks for the support. Frankly, I could use all the support I can get at
this time. Not everyone seems to understand the need for this site and I've
had a lot of blasting from those who think this is about my ego. I promise
you that the decision to try to re-establish a list for the discussion of
the SCD, was not about quitting the game and taking my ball home.
Yes, if you do not want to be on the other list you must send them a post
with "unsubscibe" in the body of the e-mail.
Wecome home,

Re: win win situation
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 4:51:54 GMT

>If Don's list is to be a sort of general IBD discussion group,
>then doesn't that overlap with the purpose of the
> newgroup?

I don't think that overlap is problematic or even existant. The discussion
on that group is mostly about meds and surgery and coping, and doesn't
center on diet for the most part. Don's list is a place that is about diet,
and there is plenty of info there. After all, no one has a problem with all
the Wolfgang Lutz stuff on Mik's site. The problem with Don's list is that
it is Don's list, and he is trying to run it with all the diplomacy of a
"diet nazi." He threatens to bump list members, and he attacks Elaine's
views and all good news with his own explanation of what "really happened."
He completely ignores the fact that it is an SCD list and not a Don list.

Having said that, he is very knowledgable on subjects that can be useful.
when I posted a request about hot dogs for my son's snausage craving,
several people told me about a brand they had been using. Don told us that
they contained large quantities of hvp and msg. I found that information

If the maelstrom site stays up, I will check in from time to time.
Primarily though, I want to be on the list that deals with scd questions
and which is sanctioned by Elaine. Speaking of SCD questions, here's one:
What's the word on sesame? Is it legal. If this is the list, maybe it will
provide an answer. I've asked this one a couple of times on the DonList,
but still haven't gotten a bite.

One last gripe...This list server is the pits compared to the other one.
Without the digest option, and with all the posting these days, I takes an
eternity to go through the mail, and it's all mixed in with the regular
mail. I'm all for the new list, but why on an inferior server?

Re: win win situation
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:42:52 GMT

> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> If Don's list is to be a sort of general IBD discussion group,
> then doesn't that overlap with the purpose of the
> newgroup?
> Regards/Liz

Yes, There would be some overlap. But I've always perceived the alt.
chrons-colitis site as a place that is based upon the standard,
"thinking in the box" medical community-endorsed kind of thing, whereby
Don's site seems to be a place where "thinking out of the box," but not
exclusively the SCD, takes place.

Subscribe to two SCD lists
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:13:27 GMT

Partridges, Edmonton, Alberta ALLAN writes:
>I would like to unsubscribe Don W. list and make sure that we are
>on the right list. If we unscubscribe, do we send to
>"" or do we assume that
>with the passage of time, Don W. will delete us all from the list.

I don't see why Don should delete anyone from the Maelstrom list ? However, if you want to unsubscribe the Maelstrom list, you can read on this page how to:

(You write "SIGNOFF SCD" in the body of the message and send it to:

People have asked me if I am or am not a supporter of the new list. I personally think it was an over-reaction to start a new list. I miss the nice technological features of the Maelstrom list: web archive, digest, etc. On the other hand, maybe it WAS the right thing to do... I hate to think of the confusion it must create for a newcomer, recently, when meeting up with not one but TWO scd lists that seem very alike in their purposes.
But then again: maybe both lists will turn out to supplement each other rather than compete.
The fact that we now have two "post offices" instead of one doesn't necessarily increase the amount of letters written, nor change the contents of those letters... (as long as one remain subscribing to both of them).
The buttom line is that it certainly is important that noone feels that they could come in a situation where they'd be "bumped out" of a list because of their viewpoints.
Freedom of speech is essential.
Even if it is just a _feeling_ of freedom of speech.
And if a new list can ensure that everyone now has a good feeling of freedom of speech, then it is worth it.
We all know, at the same time, how this beautiful concept of freedom of speech can certainly turn out to be a disturbing element once in a while. But no question, it is worth the hussle. Even when it means having two SCD lists.

All in all, I am one of those who quietly lean back - and follow how things develop...
For now, I'll remain subscribing to both lists and would recommend that we all do that, in order to help people in need where we can. Remember...? This is still (or ought still to be) the driving force behind all our SCD activities on the Internet.
If your mailbox is floating over with emails, you can conveniently change the setting of your Maelstrom subscription to "digest", which means you'll only receive one posting a day. (You write "SET SCD DIGEST" in the body of the message and send it to:

By the way, the Maelstrom list is not "Don's list". It DID belong to all of us, and John still happens to be the listowner.

Peace! ;-)


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:11:08 -0400
From: Don Wiss <donwiss @ panix . com>

Subject: Re: win win situation

Matthew Cirillo <mcirill@EMORY.EDU> wrote:
>How does this sound? The NEW list is specifically for people with IBD
>who wish to follow the SCD and get feedback from Elaine if and when it
>is available, to exchange new recipes, get support and encouragement,
>impart what's working/what's not working, and other technical aspects of
>the SCD diet. The OTHER (Don's) list can be an exchange of ideas for
>members of the medical profession, microbiologists, regular folks etc...
>and not be specifically the SCD, but address other diets, technical
>information, medical remedies, relating to IBD.

Hi everybody,

I just got home and just read the Digest. I was aware that Rachel was
starting a new list, but I was not privy to the timing or how the
transition was to take place. But knowing it was coming has allowed me time
to think about it. First, I will not be joining Rachel's list, and presume
I wouldn't be welcome on it anyway. Second, I don't have to shut down this
list. Basically what Matthew has written above are my intentions. While I'd
rather this list be named something like IBD-Diet, changing a name isn't an
easy thing to do, though I will look into it.

The list will cover the three known IBD diets, plus the elemental diet as
described in The Lancet article. Debate will be allowed on the list, and
I'm hoping the discussion will include both support, and a technical
discussion of diet as related to IBDs.

The three diets that will be covered are:

Elaine Gottschall's "Specific Carbohydrate Diet"
Dr. Wofgang J. Lutz's "Dismantling a Myth"
Dr. Walter L. Voegtlin's "Stone Age Diet"

Dr. Lutz's book in English is out of print, but is due to be reprinted by
the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation eventually (I've asked and have no
answer). Dr. Voegtlin's book was self-published in 1975 and should be
available on inter-library loan. I have asked Price-Pottenger about
republishing it and they have not responded.

Matthew notes medical remedies. I am not a fan of meds, so I would want the
topics to remain diet related. I presume the IBD-List covers discussion of
the IBD meds.

I do not know what Rachel's plans are, but the easiest would be to leave
people on this list and they would then have to unsubscribe, if they only
wished to be on the new one.

While I wish everybody the best on the new sanctioned by Elaine list, I do
think it will be good that people will have a choice of lists, and a choice
of diets.


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:05:26 -0500
From: Rachel Turet <rachel@LONGISLAND.COM>

Subject: Re: win win situation

Dear Don,
I agree with most everything you have to say in this post. Although the
list at the longisland address is not "MY" list, it is a place where those
that have not found answers on other diets, but wish to discuss "The
Specific Carbohydrate diet" can exchange recipes and share ideas about how
to cope with UC/Crohns in conjunction with the diet. To clarify a point,
some people seem to think that the list of names was taken from you, when
in fact, John and I just wanted to pick up where Michael left off in
maintaining a list for the SCD and he came to you for advice and help which
you gave him. Unless I'm mistaken thats how you became co-owners of this
list. When it started noone expected the conflicts that came of it. The new
address is just meant to be the new home for the SCD group. It seems to me
that we all share one goal. To become and to remain healthy. To that end I
beleive that there is pleanty of room for us all. Your list to discuss
various alternatives, and the new (old?) list for those that want what the
SCD has to offer.

Fax from Elaine Gottschall
Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:58:03 GMT

Dear All,
Congradulations on your new site [mailing list]. I hope you will gain a sense of unity as
you seek support, consolation, and answers to your questions. The French
have a word for it -Esprit De Corps- "a sense of togetherness", as you work
your way back to good health. A young man in Bellingham, Wash. said in an
interveiw: "I ate my way into Crohn's disease and now I am eating my way
out of it." But we know it is easier said than done. I hope communication
among you will give you the strength you need to do this. Although I am not
online, I am available to talk to you if you cannot get the answers among
discussion with the group. I have written articles on qustions like "is IBD
genetic?" and "what is celiac disease?". There is an abundance of published
information in the medical journals I might be able to help you with. For
example, on one site, people were arguing about smoking and its effect on
IBD - that material is well known and you should not have to argue about
So, PEACE BE WITH YOU and it is my wish that you will no longer have to
feel that you are struggling with IBD helplessly, hopelessly and silently.
Elaine Gottschall

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