Letters from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet support group, July 5-7, 1997 (19) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:23:51 +0200 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: gwozdz <gwozdz@HRZ.TU-FREIBERG.DE> Subject: Dietmar`s questions re: recent book by W. Lutz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again, I just checked with the local bookshoop whether Wolfgang Lutz`s recent book is available and unfortunately it isn`t (nor is the book "Leben ohne Brot"). But I am positive to get a copy through this Informed GmbH mentioned on Mik`s website. Will let you know. Regards Miroslav ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:14:44 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: B4FL@AOL.COM Subject: Yogurt starter Bill, There is a company called New England Cheesemaking Supply Co., http://www.cheesemaking.com. I found this place when I was trying to locate a strainer to make cheese from the yogurt. They offer yogurt starters but I haven't ordered any yet. You can request a catalog at the web site or call 413-628-3808. As to the potatoe chip problem, have you ever tried plaintain chips? My son eats them and loves them. Make sure they only contain plaintain and oil though. Barb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:26:55 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Dietmar`s questions re: recent book by W. Lutz In-Reply-To: <199707051023.DAA15380@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:23 PM 7/5/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hello again, > >I just checked with the local bookshoop whether Wolfgang Lutz`s recent >book is available and unfortunately it isn`t (nor is the book "Leben >ohne Brot"). But I am positive to get a copy through this Informed GmbH >mentioned on Mik`s website. > >Will let you know. > Wow, you're fast! Thanks. Yes, let him/me know, it'd be really appreciated. By the way, you "speak" excellent English, it's great! Dietmar >Regards >Miroslav > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:31:35 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Comments: RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Notice of going off-line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear folks: This is a message from Dietmar, in British Columbia. Just wanted to let you know that I'm scheduled for hip revision surgery plus other stuff, so I anticipate (if all goes OK) to be off-line for several months (3 - 4). So please note NOT to send e-mail ... you won't get a reply, and hopefully you'll hereby know why. If you need to reach me for some strange & urgent reason, you can try my parents' phone @ (604) 536-6829; otherwise, I guess you'll know if/when I'm back if/when you hear from me again! All the best, sincerely, Dietmar ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:36:54 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Yogourmet Freeze-Dried Yoghurt Starter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since so many people keep asking "where can I get yoghurt starter???", when making a batch of y. yesterday, I saved the envelope so I could pass on the mailing address of the manufacturer of the brand I use ... (but of course, it, or similar starters, are probably available in ANY health food store ... I don't know why so many people have trouble finding any): Lyo-San Inc. (makers of Yogourmet yoghurt starter) 500 Aeroparc Box 598 Lachute, Quebec J8H 4G4 Canada (No phone number given; it does say "if refrigerated, best for 1 year past date embossed on the pouch" so it keeps well). Best wishes, Dietmar Dietmar White Rock, British Columbia, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:01:54 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Dairy Intolerance In-Reply-To: <199707042336.QAA18393@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:34 PM 7/4/97 PST, you wrote: >>Don't get your hopes up about allergy testing - the doctors are not >>very sympathetic to food allergies. >> >>Good Luck, >> >>Lori > >I agree about not getting your hopes up about allergy testing. I've been >there, done that, as they say. I had a Vega test done by a Naturopath, which >uses a special machine, electric current and samples of about 25 different >allergens in little vials. And also an extensive blood allergy test called IgG >IgE or something to that effect at another Naturopath. This one tested me for >about 200 different foods, spices, etc. Both of these tests are supposed to >find allergies, intolerances, and sensitivities. I've been to several NDs. >All the results of these allergy tests came out ambiguous and did not hold >true, which was really disappointing to me. Yep. In my experience (about a dozen ND's) they're just "wanna be" MD's except they charge you an arm & a leg (for those readers in the US, here in Canada our Medicare covers Medical doctors' services etc., but for naturopaths we have to pay ourselves); I've never had satisfactory results from them. What more can be said? If they DID have such fantastic solutions, medical doctors wouldn't even exist anymore, is how I see it! Dietmar > At the time, I thought that this >allergy thing WAS the answer. The things I absolutely KNEW I was allergic to >because I get the early stages of anaphalaxis when I eat them, did not even >show up on these tests, so now I don't trust them. When I questioned the >doctor about this, they said that these tests only test for so called "hidden >allergies" not the obvious ones. I didn't buy that. I don't know about the >skin scratch allergy tests that the MDs do. I hear they are mainly good to >test for airborne things, or contact dermatitis type reaction allergens, and >not so good for foods, because foods are not introduced through the skin, but >rather, through the mucosa of the digestive tract. >Anna > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:27:20 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Beliefs, Paradigms In-Reply-To: <199707050014.RAA20381@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:10 PM 7/4/97 PST, you wrote: >>On Elaine's diet you'll be eating lots of veggies and some fruits, plus >>normal amounts of fat. Read the Sears book, and stop worrying about the >>Fat Police ... I now believe that theory will soon be publically propounded >>as "Oops, screwed your head around once more, sorry, let's go on to the >>next fad we can sell you!" > >I totally agree with Dietmar's excellent post in response to John's valid >concern. We have been brainwashed in this society. The industries do it quite >easily, and the mainstream medical industries fall for it too. I call it the "Medical-Industrial Complex" ... industrialized medicine, get it? (blatantly stolen from the 1960's "Military-Industrial Complex" catch-phrase) >Especially the >Dieticians, whose schooling in my opinion is major brainwashing (sorry to >offend anyone out there who is one). Hey, offend, offend onward! Back in the 1980's I spent one year at a university's nutrition dept planning to become a dietician. When I submitted a paper on "Vit. A & possible colitis therapy" (broaching the subject that diet & colitis might, wow, just might, be linked! real eye-opener, eh?), I was "slapped down" so harshly by my professor (a woman, just to be fair ... most dieticians are women ... one of the minor reasons I wanted to get into the professions, hey, I'm a full-blooded male, I won't deny!), and combined that with the "food sciences" idiocy we were learning (basically, the chemistry secrets of how to make industrial foods) that I decided "screw these idiots, I won't be able to get anywhere with my ideas here!" and left that path. So I've been "inside the sanctum" somewhat: go ahead, Anna, condemn! It's up to US to figure it out, since they're no help. And those few dieticians who've seen the light won't raise their head above the firing line of their profession's "political correctness" because they'd lose their cushy gov't jobs (most work in gov't institutions). So there ya goes! We're on our own! But that's ok, we're doing a great job, the way I see it. >The things most MDs and Dieticians >believe in are pounded it into their heads for years during the training. Then >they become so closed minded, it's almost impossible to convince them of >anything else. Tell any Dietician about our SCD and they'll tell you it's just >plain wrong. They don't want to hear an explanation or believe in anyone's >testimonial experience, Because they're brainwashed to discount "personal experience" as "unscientific" ... as if "science" isn't a totally subjective value-judgement. If it can't be fit into the square box of a computerizable data base, it ain't no good, babe! But hey, who can argue with closed minds? >because that is the extent of their brainwashing, so to >speak. > >I just saw another exposee that told how they actually have no scientific >evidence that salt is bad for high blood pressure and heart disease. Hey, you good guys & gals who have the time really should start to subscribe to the Paleodiet list server from the same "company" we're now on ... don't quote me, but try <paleodiet@maelstrom.stjohns.edu>, but don't ask me for advice because I've unhooked & forgot the true details in preparation for my hip surgery. But the Paleodiet is a fantastic group to "eavesdrop" / "lurk" around (if you're somewhat scientifically inclined and can understand the ocasional big words ... it's a group designed for scientists, NOT laypeople so keep your mouth shut unless you have astounding insights that scientists would fall over themselves to listen to). These folks are not your standards scientificos, they're the oopen-minded kind, really interesting stuff on there. OK, I'll make it easy for you .... two ways to check them out: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/paleodiet.html or send "subscribe paleodiet" in body of text to <listserv@maelstrom.stjohns.edu> I think that'll do it. >Ask >anyone you know and they'll tell you that too much salt is bad for you. >Apparently there is no real proof of this. They actually have studies proving >the opposite, that there's nothing really wrong with salt, and this idea of the >badness of salt started in the 50's with a theory, a rumor and it stuck. The >media is to blame for all this misinformation as well. Think about how many >things in the past have been so publicized and thought to be true by the mass >population, and then later on were disproved and are now regarded as total >bunk. An old saying goes that many of these ideas we think are "the way it >is", will one day be accepted to be "as old as sealing wax". (I think that >refers to the wax people used to use to seal letters, correct me if I'm wrong) >meaning that at one time in history, everyone did it and thought it was normal, >but now nobody does it anymore and wouldn't even consider it. > >Anyway, the point is, I think Dietmar was on the ball with his bit of advice. >If I were concerned about cholesterol (rightfully so, with all the media about >it), I would take a cholesterol test now, before starting the diet, get a >baseline reading, and then go on the diet for a month. Eat more fish and >poultry, less red meat; more egg whites, less yolks; more olive oil, less >butter, and more nuts, fruits, and vegies. Notice I said "more" and "less", >not "all" or "none". There's nothing wrong with a little butter, but that >doesn't mean you can slather it on like there's no tomorrow. > I agree with you fully on all the above --- Dietmar >Another thing I remembered is the butter/margerine thing. Remember how it was >thought that margerine was healthier than butter. Geez ... you mean people actually BELIEVED that? That an industrial "food" could be better than the real thing? I guess people forgot that margarine (or "oleomargarine", as it was first called, sounds nice & greasy, eh?) was invented during WWII as imitation butter so that butter oil could be used to lubricate military equipment! So we get the crap, and the tanks get the good stuff. Tanks a lot, eh ;-) > Everyone was convinced. >Nobody would dare say they thought butter was ok. But NOW, it has been proven >that margerine is actually WAY WORSE for everyone than even butter! Ever hear >about Trans-fatty acids, hydrogenation, etc? Paleodiet list again ... they've discussed & discuss all these neat items. >Did you know that there are >actually regulations or laws now that prevent margerine advertisments from >claiming margerine is good for your health? It's all because they proved that >margerine is horrible for you! Thank God margerine is not allowed on this >diet. Although, I stopped eating margerine way before I found this diet. >Margerine was only invented during the war because there wasn't enough butter >to go around. I'm too young to remember, but remember when you had to squeeze >the food coloring in and mix it up yourself? Gross! When the war ended there >was no reason to keep eating margerine, but the companies needed to keep making >money so it became the "healthier" counterpart to butter. Now we all know >different, don't we. Not to mention that margerine is an oil usually stored in >plastic (for those of you who read my plastic ramblings earlier). Margerine is >probably worse than eating plastic. > >Ok, you're starting to think I'm nuts again, Nope, I'm with ya! >so I better go. Stay, damsel, stay! >That'll be all >for now. Sorry to be so long. >Anna > > Good work. Excellent. See you, D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 11:03:39 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Renee Zobkiw <rz@TRIPLESOFT.COM> Subject: One month and counting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi there, After completing my first month on the SCD diet, thought I'd send a note to say hello, but especially to thank all of you for your kindness in sharing info and experiences with the SCD diet. I am 28 years old, and live in Raleigh, North Carolina. The diet has been a huge help to me, even though it's only been one month. I actually enjoy eating now. I have UC, was on prednisone for approx 5 years, then recently switched to Imuran back in Jan. (I also take Asacol, 12 tablets a day.) The good news is (under my doctor's supervision) I tapered off the Imuran last Tuesday and am feeling great. This is the first time I've been successfully off heavy meds in MANY years. I believe the diet has a lot to do with my success. Want to know a secret? You have to promise not to tell my in-laws yet. :) My husband and I want to start a family! It is a very exciting time, but also scary, in relation to having UC. My GI doc wanted me to consider surgery first (j-pouch...removal of the entire colon), but after speaking with a GI surgeon and a high-risk pregnancy OB, they both felt, for my situation, I could try pregnancy first. I showed all three docs Elaine's book. Two out of the three seemed optimistic in me trying it. Has anyone out there had experience with being on the diet while pregnant? Do any of you have any thoughts or knowledge about whether the diet is healthy for a pregnant woman? (Also, I'd love to converse with anyone who has UC who has gone through pregnancy.) In closing, if you're in the Raleigh, NC. area, here's some locations of where I found items related to the SCD diet: - farmer cheese - Hannaford Grocery store (on Capital blvd.), and also WellSpring Grocery store. (Make sure to ask for farmer's cheese. They had no idea what dry curd cottage cheese was.) - Plain yogurt (with only the ingredients Elaine mentions) - WellSpring Grocery store - Yogourmet starter (if you can tolerate this as some people on this list mentioned they can) - WellSpring Grocery store - Multi-vitamin (with no additives) - WellSpring Grocery Store (brand name is Solgar) Finally, I use a Salton yogurt maker which I ordered via the internet. It works great. I now eat homeade yogurt on a daily basis. Wishing you all well! Sincerely, <renee> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:34:32 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Why??? In-Reply-To: <199707050115.SAA22996@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:06 PM 7/4/97 PST, you wrote: >>Are the following forbidden on the diet? > >Elaine has said kidney beans are allowed. >The rest of things you listed, I'm not positive about. > >>Why are garbanzos (chick peas) forbidden, but not white beans or lentils or >>split peas? What's the principle here? > >We don't really know why in a lot of cases. One reason I have heard is that >Elaine didn't have a chance to "test out" every single food known to man and >she mainly went by what the Drs. Haas told her. After all, they apparently >invented it, not her. She is no food scientist, and she didn't even have IBD >herself. The amount of research and work done by her just to figure out those >foods listed as allowable so far, was very extensive and labour intensive. I >am greatful just for that alone. I think that basically, that is the reason. >Maybe with more research, we could find out more foods we could possibly eat >and more answers as to why. But who has time or resources for that kind of >project? It seems the medical establishment couldn't care less about the >purported anecdotal evidence that this diet helps us. I haven't seen anyone >rushing to do any studies, controlled trials, etc. There's no $$$ in it ... it's much more payback for the "medical industrial complex" to sell drugs, use knives & expensive equipment, and NEVER solve the problem. Stupid (for us), but true! Go figure ... that's how life works, eh? >It seems all anyone wants >to do is dis-prove it, rather than prove it unfortunately. > >>Why almond milk only after 6 months? > >I found myself asking WHY to a LOT of things in this book. Finally I gave up >and just accepted it, because usually, nobody knows why. We can theorize, but >then again, that's what this diet is all about. A theory. Right. At some point (like when you're miserably sick and have found no answers) and you hear about so many folks who've tried this and say it works, even if in some cases not 100% but better than anything else that's ever come down the pike, well, how about packing away your "Doubting Thomas why's?" into the attic trunk for a while and just go with the program, see how it works for you? The "constant why's" types, well, hey, get the hell out of your own way and get into gear ... brains don't help much in this case, eating by the plan does! We can discuss all the possible "why's" at a later date, first, let's get well. Does that make sense? >I think almond milk >probably contains concentrated forms of carbohydrates and therefore maybe >harder to digest. Just like you're not supposed to eat nuts at all until the >diarreah is gone. Not everyone realizes the fact that this diet is a gradual >process of introducing things. Yes, Elaine's book is a little weak in some aspects, like making that concept (of "gradual introduction") amply clear. But who ever said she OUGHT to be an outstanding writer? What counts at this stage is getting the concepts "out there" among us, the great unwashed. >It's not an all or nothing type of thing. We >are supposed to start out with limited foods that are easier to digest, and as >we get better, add a few more things, like the nuts, beans, etc. > >Let's remember the name of this diet is "Specific" Carbohydrate Diet. It seems >that it's not necessarily a carbo free diet or even merely a low carbo diet. >For some reasons, mostly unknown at this time, certain carbohydrates are easier >to digest for us than others. That's probably why some beans are yes and some >are no. God only knows, as the saying goes. > >>Is there any way to communicate with Elaine directly to get authoritative >>information about these kinds of details? > >I have heard that Elaine is actually very open to getting phone calls. From >personal experience, I know she doesn't really like answering questions by fax >because it takes too long to write it all out. She is happy to answer all your >questions on the phone. I think her new number is 905-349-3443. After talking >to some people, I've heard that she sometimes even phones to check on how they >are doing later on. > >Good luck, >Anna > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:38:59 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Sample of the Paleodiet group (talking, among other things, about animal fats, cholesterol, CHO's (carbohydrates) ... for your perusal, to give you an idea of the "level of language" and help you decide if you want to subscribe to it Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 16:00:19 -0400 >Reply-To: Paleolithic Diet Symposium List <PALEODIET@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> >Sender: Paleolithic Diet Symposium List <PALEODIET@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> >From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> >Subject: PALEODIET Digest - 28 Jun 1997 to 29 Jun 1997 >To: Recipients of PALEODIET digests <PALEODIET@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> > >There is one message totalling 243 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. Enig & Fallon Reply to Dr. Cordain > >End of Topics (which are also called e-mail "Subject Lines") > >------------=-=-=-=-=-=-=- IMPORTANT NOTICE -=-=-=-=-=-=-------------- > > ** Make sure you have a subject line that reflects your topic ** > ** Do not have a subject that says Re: PALEODIET Digest - ... ** > > ** Selectively quote the previous message, do not repost it ** > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 09:26:30 -0400 >From: SAFallon@AOL.COM >Subject: Enig & Fallon Reply to Dr. Cordain > >To: Dr. Cordain and members of the Paleodiet Group >Re: Answers to questions of May 26, 1997 > >=46irst, many apologies for taking so long to respond to your excellent >questions and comments of May 26. Our replies follow: > >1. You now have the reference for Voegtlin=EDs book. As you point out, >Voegtlin errs in asserting that plant foods are needed to prevent scurvy. > Uncooked or minimally cooked flesh of organs of animals contain either >vitamin C or a vitamin-C-like substance that prevents scurvy. Dr. Weston >Price made this discovery when studying the Indians of Northern Canada. (1) > When they killed an animal, the Indians immediately divided up the adrenal >glands and gave a piece--raw--to every member of the tribe, and they >understood that this would prevent scurvy. Dr. Voegtlin is also wrong about >vitamin K, which is found in butter and animal fats. So it can be said that >all the known vitamins, minerals and needed macronutrients can be obtained >from animal foods. However, we should not rule out the possibility that th= >e >various phyto-chemicals, alkaloids, etc. found in plant foods, while not >classified as vitamins, are necessary for optimal health, at least to some >individuals. > >2. We have consistently argued that the current high levels of CHD have >nothing to do with the consumption of saturated fat from animal sources, >(2,3,4) but rather are due to foods relatively new to the human >diet--particularly excess polyunsaturates, hydrogenated oils and refined >carbohydrates. The anti-cholesterol, anti-animal-fat campaign is a phoney >issue invented and promulgated by the vegetable oil and fabricated food >industries during the 50s and 60s in order to get the upper hand in marketin= >g >their products. It amounts to propaganda designed to denigrate nutritious >traditional foods so that the consumer will buy highly refined and processed >food items instead. The amount of saturated fat in the American diet >remained the same between 1935 and 1974--the period of greatest increase in >heart disease. > >3. The LDL/HDL issue is also phoney and does not stand up to rigorous >scrutiny. LDL is necessary to carry cholesterol from the liver to the cells= >, >particularly to the brain cells, which unlike other cells in the human body, >do not manufacture cholesterol. However, it is true that oxidized LDL is = >a >problem, and does initiate foam cells in the arteries. Oxidized cholesterol >is found in products that have been heated to very high temperatures in the >presence of oxygen, such as powdered eggs and milk. Powdered eggs are added >to many processed foods and powdered milk is added to 1% and 2% milk to giv= >e >it body. People drinking reduced fat milk in order to =ECavoid heart diseas= >e=EE >are actually taking in large quantities of oxidized cholesterol which is a >causative factor. You are also right in pointing out that high levels of >commercial polyunsaturated oils (virtually all of which have a high N6 to N3 >ratio) increase LDL oxidizability. It is the excess of polyunsaturated >oils that cause the problem--not the saturated fats, whether in the modern >diet or in traditional cuisines. In fact, SFAs have been shown to lower >Lp(a) which, unlike total serum cholesterol, HDL or LDL, is a very good >marker for increased risk of CHD. (5) > >4. We believe that the amount of protein in the diet as related to CHD is >another phony issue. One can point to populations with relatively high >protein consumption (30-40%) with little or no CHD, and to populations with >relatively low protein consumption (15-20%) with little or no CHD. In any >event, we have no way of knowing the exact ratios of macronutrients in the >Paleolithic diet, and in fact, there probably was a lot of variation >depending on season, locality and tribal custom. The danger lies, as we >pointed out in our article, in diets high in animal protein but low in fat. > This seems to have been generally recognized by the hunter-gatherer. > >5. We would like to know what kind of fat combined with carbohydrates >exacerbate the postprandial lipemic excursions. We can well believe that >excess polyunsaturated or trans fats would do this. We know that fats take= >n >with carbohydrates, especially traditional fats such as butter or any of the >tropical oils, lower the glycemic index, thereby preventing blood sugar >swings. We are not aware of any studies showing carbohydrates were eaten >separately in pre-industrial societies. American Indians made pemmican fro= >m >meat or fish, fat, maple syrup and cranberries; succatash was made from meat= >, >fat, beans and corn. Orthodox dieticians/nutritionists contend that high >carbohydrate diets improve blood lipid profiles. All this emphasis on >protein and carbohydrate content is, we believe, misplaced. The real issue >is the kind and quality of the macronutrients--how they are produced, >processed and prepared. > >6. We look forward to seeing your research and intriguing findings about th= >e >varying lengths of SFAs in wild and domesticated animals. Stearic acid >(18:0) has been shown to raise cholesterol in some studies--and in any event= >, >the whole cholesterol issue is bogus. There may be differences in the N6/N3 >ratios in wild and domesticated ruminant adipose tissue, but in both overall >total PUFA is low. The real imbalances come with modern farming methods (fo= >r >eggs, fish, vegetables, etc.) and with the introduction of high N6 oils into >the diet. Excess N6/N3 ratios result in profound imbalances at the cellular >level that can lead to MI, cancer and many other diseases. (6, 7) We >certainly do agree that high levels of N6 in the diet are a problem, but the >source of excess N6 is not domesticated beef and lamb. > >7. We do not know when milk product consumption became general, but it is >fair to assume that the adoption of a nomadic/herder life-style--and >therefore the domestication of animals--preceded agriculture. We cannot >understand how dairy products per se can be blamed for the CHD epidemic. > Counter examples include France (low CHD, high consumption of butter and >cheese); Soviet Georgia (famed for longevity, high consumption of whole milk >products); the Masai (high consumption of whole milk products, no CHD); >Switzerland and Austria (life span almost as long as Japan, diet rich in >butterfat and whole milk products) and America at the turn of the century >(diet loaded with butterfat and whole milk products, very little CHD.) If >CHD is associated with milk consumption within individual countries, the >finger must be pointed at modern production methods (inappropriate feed for >the cows, cows bred to have a low butterfat content) processing >(pasteurization, homogenization) and additives (powdered skim milk containin= >g >oxidized cholesterol and synthetic vitamin D2 or D3. Synthetic D2 has been >very conclusively shown to cause calcification of the soft tissues including >the arteries, and large amounts of synthetic D3, which has largely replaced >D2 as an additive to milk, have been implicated as a causative factor in th= >e >initiation of pathogenic lesion development in the arteries. (8) The N6-N3 >ratio of the small amounts of PUFAs in bovine milk fat is excellent--about >2/1--whereas total N6/N3 in the modern diet exceeds 20/1. So once again, >while we agree that high levels of N6 in the diet are a problem, the source >of excess N6 is not butterfat. Dietary saturated fats contribute to >improved assimilation of EFAs. (9) In other words, we need less of the EFAs >when there are enough SFAs in the diet. Magnesium does seem to protect >against CHD. The fault lies not with high levels of calcium from milk >products, but with the deficiency of magnesium in modern diets. Weston Pric= >e >found that the diets of healthy =ECprimitives=EE contained ten times the amo= >unt >of calcium as the American diet of his day. (1) Sources of magnesium >include nuts, meat and grains such as buckwheat. > >8. As we stated earlier, modern man is not consuming high levels of SFAs >compared to pre-agricultural man. The blame for inactivity should be placed >on the lower nutrient content of the total diet, composed as it is of high >levels of refined and devitalized foods. When the diet supplies all the >needed factors, humans need no incentives to exercise. > >9. Finally, on the question of salt, a distinction must be made between >processed salt, which contains many problematic chemicals including >aluminium, and from which the magnesium salts and all the valuable trace >minerals have been removed. Modern salt comes attached to modern food >products, which are invariably refined, rancid and laced with additives; and >it is difficult to separate salt from these other variables in dietary >research surveys. Some studies have shown that with low salt diets, >hypertension becomes worse. In the 1930s, researcher McCance demonstrated >that when dietary salt is lowered, all manner of inappropriate physiological >responses ensue--including cramps, weakness, lassitude, loss of taste >sensation and severe cardiorespiratory distress on exertion. (10) The recen= >t >contribution to this debate, describing various American Indian methods for >using salty blood in the preparation of their meat, supports our contention >that Paleolithic diets contained sodium chloride. Salty animal blood and >urine form an important part of the diet in salt-poor Africa. The >concentration of population, and the rise and fall of civilizations >throughout the world, can be positively correlated with the availability of >salt. (11) > >To summarize, the hypothesis that modern chronic diseases like CHD and cance= >r >are due to consumption of saturated fats, red meat, milk products and salt >does not stand up to careful scrutiny. These have been in the diets of >healthy population groups for millennia. Media denigration of such >traditional foods is a distraction that diverts the attention of both the >public and the scientific community from the real culprits--modern farming >techniques, inappropriate processing, refined carbohydrates, commercial >vegetable oils, food additives and rancid & altered fats. > >P.S. The rest of citation #2 is Coronary Heart Disease: The Dietary Sense >and Nonsense, George V Mann, ed, Janus Publishing, 1993, available from the >Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation (619) 574-7763. Mann=EDs involvement w= >ith >the Framingham Study, and his studies of the Masai, whose diet is high in >saturated fat but who do not suffer from CHD, led him to the following >conclusion: =ECThe diet-heart hypothesis has been repeatedly shown to be >wrong, and yet, for complicated reasons or pride, profit and prejudice, the >hypothesis continues to be exploited by scientists, fund-raising enterprises= >, >food companies and even governmental agencies. The public is being deceived >by the greatest health scam of the century.=EE Confirmation of Mann=EDs >statement comes from none other than William Castelli, Director of the >=46ramingham Study, who stated, =ECIn Framingham, Massachusetts, the more >saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one >ate, the lower peoples serum cholesterol. . . we found that the people who >ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, ate the most calories >weighed the lease and were the most physically active.=EE (Archives of >Internal Medicine, 1992) > >1. Price, Weston A DDS, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, 1945 Keats >Publishing, Price Pottenger Nutrition Foundation (619) 574-7763 > >2. Fallon, Sally with Mary G Enig, PhD and Pat Connolly, Nourishing >Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and >the Diet Dictocrats, 1996 ProMotion Publishing (800) 231-1776 > >3. Fallon, Sally and Mary G Enig, PhD, =ECDiet and Heart Disease: Not What >You Think=EE, Consumers Research Magazine, July 1996 (615) 337-3322 > >4. Fallon, Sally and Mary G Enig, PhD, =ECOur Friend Cholesterol=EE, Health >=46reedom News, April-May 1996, National Health Federation (818) 303-0642 > >5. Pramod Khosla, PhD and K C Hayes, DVM, PhD =ECDietary Trans-Monounsatura= >ted >=46atty Acids Negatively Impact Plasma Lipids in Humans: Critical Review of >the Evidence=EE Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol 15, No 4 >3250-339 (1996) > >6. Horrobin, David F, PhD, =ECThe regulation of prostaglandin biosynthesis = >by >manipulation of essential fatty acid metabolism,=EE Reviews in Pure and Appl= >ied >Pharmacological Sciences, Vol 4, 339-383, Freund Publishing House, 1983 > >7. Fallon, Sally and Mary G Enig PhD, =ECTripping Lightly Down the >Prostaglandin Pathways=EE, Price Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Health Journ= >al, >Vol 20, No 3 Fall 1996 25-29. > >8. Huang, William Y, Akinori Kamio, S-J C Yeh and Fred A Kummerow, =ECThe >Influence of Vitamin D on Plasma and Tissue Lipids and Atherosclerosis in >Swine=EE, Artery 3(5):439-455 (1977) > >9. Garg, M L et al, FASEB Journal 2:4:A852 (1988) > >10. McCance, R A, =ECExperimental Sodium Chloride Deficiency in Man=EE, >Nutrition Reviews, Vol 48, 145-147 (Mar 1990) > >11. Bloch, M R, =ECThe Social Influence of Salt=EE, Scientific American 121= >-129 >(July 1963) > >------------------------------ > >End of PALEODIET Digest - 28 Jun 1997 to 29 Jun 1997 >**************************************************** > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:54:53 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: fiber, cholesterol, colon cancer In-Reply-To: <199707050240.TAA26337@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:45 PM 7/4/97 PDT, you wrote: >John, >I agree about the fact that we don't know the whole story on fat and >cholesterol. I also heard on the news the other day that aside from >advoiding animal fats, people who want to keep their cholesterol levels >under control should avoid sugar as well. >I think the key is that it's really only animal fats that have been >linked to higher cholesterol levels. Well, let me just butt in here with my 2-bit's worth: the paleodiet group (scientists), some have said it's actually a HIGH refined-CHO (carbohydrate) diet that is the problem, whether one eats animal fats or not. >So you should not be worried about >eating the other fats, like olive oil and the fats in nuts and fish. >And depending on your diet before, you may actually end up eating lower >fat content overall. A lot of the foods that we have to avoid because >of their sugar or starch content, also have a lot of fat in them, like >donuts, cakes and chocolate bars. Yes, but it's all INDUSTRIALLY-SATURATED fats in that stuff. Animal fats are not INDUSTRIALLY saturated, and some aren't even saturated at all. >As far as fiber goes, the diet is high in fiber once diarrhea is no >longer a problem and you can start introducing raw fruits and >vegetables, nuts and beans. And I'm pretty sure that oat bran is not >the only soluble fiber that has been linked to lowering cholesterol. >Another source of soluble fiber is the part of a fruit other than it's >skin. >Also, exercise is a very successful way of controlling your cholesterol >level, as well as many other health benefits. Whoever's interested, have a look at Barry Sears' book "The Zone" ... it'll give you some ideas about all the cholesterol hype and B.S., and about fats & CHO in general. But a note: I had to read some chapters of it 3 - 4 times to really "get the juice out of each morsel", because sometimes he writes a bit heavier than a layperson or even non-dietician would understand ... but give it a go anyway, if you're intersted. Most any library will have it, I'm sure. >By the way, there were a few people on the diet who posted their pre and >post diet cholesterol levels and they had actually dropped. > > >Take care, >Tina > > > Thank you, Tina, Dietmar > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "Robert G. Stockbridge" <rgstockb@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: receipes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I didn't forget ya'll. I went out of town for the fourth of July. I have to come to my Dad's to use his computer. When I cook I cook by taste. I will try to supply receipes as I make them up. Some of the receipes I have just altered to fit the scd. Hamburger Pie (Shepherds Pie) Ingredients: 1 1/2 lbs ground beef 1 onion -- chopped 1 small bell pepper -- chopped 2-3 cloves garlic -- minced 24 oz. tomato juice salt and pepper to taste Frozen Peas, or string beans, or fresh green beans if possible. 1 head cauliflower 1 stick unsalted butter 12 oz. sharp cheddar cheese ( you experiment with different kinds and quatities of cheese) Directions: Brown ground beef, onion, bell pepper, and garlic. ( If you are concerned about the fat left in pan, you can brown meat in microwave. Take a plastic colander and place in microwavable bowl. Break meat apart and place in colandar and microwave till brown, stirring occassionally. The fat will drip into bowl and you can throw it away.) Add tomato juice and string beans (or peas or a mixture of the two) and cook on top of stove till it thickens. Add salt and pepper to taste. While the meat sauce is cooking you can cook the cauliflower till tender. Drain cauliflower and then beat or blend in food processor. Add buter and salt and pepper and about 1/2 of the cheese. (These are a variation of the cauliflower potatos. Put meat in a casserole dish. Top with cauliflower potatos and then top with cheese. Bake at 350 degrees for about 30 minutes. ****Note: I sometimes put mine in individual casserole dishes, bake and then when they are cooled down. I freeze them. This way I have something I can take with me. I just heat it up in a microwave. Mayonaise (variation of Elaine's) Ingredients: 1 jumbo egg 2 tablespoons of fresh squeezed lemon juice 1 - 1 1/2 teaspoon dry mustard 1 - 1 1/4 cups oil salt and pepper 1 tablespoon of honey Directions: put lemon juice and mustard and egg in blender. While the machine is running pour the oilvery slowly. It should take at least a minute. As the mayonaise thickens, the sound of the machine will change. *** It is very important to add the oil very slowly in a fine stream. Blue-Cheese Dressing Ingredients: 1- 1 1/2 cups of mayonaise(homemade) 1 cup yoghurt (homemade - I make mine with half and half) 6-10 oz. crumbled blue cheese 1-2 tsp. dry mustard Directions: Combine all ingredients and keep refrigerated. *** Note: According to scd list you may have blue cheese occasionally. I take this with me when I know that I am going to eat a salad other than my house. I hope these receipes will help ya'll. I have to go now, but I will try to send ya'll a few more tomorrow. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:43:21 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: richard dodge <rdodge@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> Subject: Re: receipes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everybody: I'm trying the diet, even though I'm not the one with IBD, my adult son is. I'm trying it to find out just how much trouble it is; I've been doing it since June 5th. My reaction: the food's fine, the cooking's time consuming if you don't just want to live on bananas and peanut butter or some other quick food that you like and is Kosher on the scd. And I'm in Texas, where the fruits and veggies are plentiful and cheap, and my son's in Sweden where this is not the case. So I'm gathering all the lore, thank you all for your fascinating info and the recipes. In particular regard to Karen's recipes, including mayonaise: what about the worry of using raw eggs? A neighbor who sells us fresh yard eggs told me the chickens have salmonella in the ovaries--some large percentage of chickens in this country, at least. My sister read in the paper that you can zap raw eggs (OUT OF THE SHELL) in the microwave and kill samlmonella, but she wasn't thinking of this diet and didn't notice for how long. She's going to call the paper; when I find out I'll get back to you. Salmonella is particularly dangerous for people suffering from IBD, I have heard. I might have heard it from this list, I don't know. I have 3-ring binders full of information, but I'm just beginning to organize it so I can retrieve it. I made the carrot cake, it was perfect. I make a lot of chicken soup. I'm making veggie soups, mashing it up in the food processor, and chilling it. It's fine with a little fresh basil or something to snap it up; chilling seems to diminish the flavor. My neighbor's giving me tons of fresh tomatoes, so I'm being good and not using canned. I was very impressed with Elaine writing on that particular issues. I am eating canned kippers--very tasty and very satisfying. Dr. Holland wrote the following to the IBD list (Vol. 8, No.42): ". . . . why a diet with the most allergenic protein mix known to mankind should work is beyond me. The SCD diet people are not too bright. If they tought about waht the immune response in an allergic response is compared to what the response is in Crohn's they might say something halfway smart. but there are no studies that even suggest that the scd diet is helpful. There are problems that respond to parts of the diet, but those are well known and are easier to tolderate than the scd diet." From my husband's experience I would caution against eating raw nuts on an empty stomach-- he's gotten an extreme allergic reaction to that. And I'd say that nuts, even cooked, should be treated with caution, integrated into a balanced diet. In other words, I can see how it wouldn't be smart to go nuts on nut muffins and cakes and what not and binge on them. But it's never good to binge on one food. So does anyone else have any comments on Dr. Holland's statment? There's something in the Lutz article concerning what might be the same thing--that the scd diet will triggger a reaction. But what I don't understand is why the establishment doctors act as if the medications they are prescribing are more benign than eating chicken and steak and veggies and fruit and yogurt every day! I'm happy Dr. Holland is engaging in real dialogue with people suffering from IBD. I'm not taking offence, I'm just puzzled about the vehemence of the reaction. Hope everybody is having a wonderful 4th of July weekend. KD in Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 15:47:35 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Peter Worcester <pwor@MAIL2.NAI.NET> Subject: Re: personal experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thursday, July 03, 1997 12:31 AM, Robert G. Stockbridge=20 [SMTP:rgstockb@WORLDNET.ATT.NET] wrote: > Hi: Ihave been on SCD for 2 months. I have lost 25lbs and my = complexion > is drastically improved, but most of all I feel much better. I have a = lot > more energy. My doctor knows I am on this diet but does not believe = it > will make a difference. I am on Imovan and he is weaning me off of > predisone. I want to thank everyone for their input. I have told a=20 couple > people locally about Elaine's book. I wouldn't say I'm symptom free, = but=20 I > am much better. I want to share with the group how I improved the=20 muffins > which love. Instead of adding three eggs to the muffins I add 1 egg = and=20 3 > egg yolks. I then take the 3 egg whites and beat till stiff. After = all > the other ingredients have been mixed together I fold in the egg = whites=20 and > then bake. This makes the muffins lighter. I've also made up many > receipes that conform to this diet. My 12 year old says that the food = eat > tastes much better than before SCD. > Karen > Karen, I would be interested in receiving copies of your receipes, could = you email or send via u.s. mail to Anne Worcester P.O. Box 2901 Danbury, = CT=20 06813. Thanks in advance if you can. Here's one I found (can't take credit, I found it in a cookbook!). Here's a recipe I found in a cookbook that's delicious! Chicken Avocado Boats 3 large ripe avocados 6 tbsp lemon juice =BE c. homemade mayonnaise 1 =BD tbsp grated onion =BC tsp celery salt 1 clove chopped garlic salt and pepper to taste 2 c. diced cooked chicken =BD c shredded sharp cheddar cheese cut avocados lengthwise, take out pit (leave skin on), spinkle each half = with 1 tbsp lemon juice, set aside preheat oven to 350 degrees combine mayo, onion, celery salt, garlic, s & p in med bowl, stir in = chix,=20 mix well. Drain excess lemon juice from avocado halves. Fill with chicken mixture, sprinkle with cheese Arrange filled avocado halves in single layer in baking dish. Pour = water=20 into same dish to depth of =BD inch. Bake for 15 minutes or until cheese melts. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 16:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Peter Worcester <pwor@MAIL2.NAI.NET> Subject: great receipe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a recipe I found in a cookbook that's delicious! Chicken Avocado Boats 3 large ripe avocados 6 tbsp lemon juice=20 =BE c. homemade mayonnaise 1 =BD tbsp grated onion =BC tsp celery salt 1 clove chopped garlic salt and pepper to taste 2 c. diced cooked chicken =BD c shredded sharp cheddar cheese cut avocados lengthwise, take out pit (leave skin on), spinkle each half = with 1 tbsp lemon juice, set aside preheat oven to 350 degrees combine mayo, onion, celery salt, garlic, s & p in med bowl, stir in = chix, mix well. Drain excess lemon juice from avocado halves. Fill with chicken mixture, sprinkle with cheese Arrange filled avocado halves in single layer in baking dish. Pour = water into same dish to depth of =BD inch. Bake for 15 minutes or until cheese melts. ------------------------------------------------------------ Anne Worcester INTERNET: Pwor@Ct2.Nai.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 03:07:43 UT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jennifer Jenkins <jjnkns@MSN.COM> Subject: Irritable Bowel Syndrome Does anyone else on the list have irritable bowel syndrome, or another kind of "benign" diagnosis doctors give after ruling out cancer, inflammatory conditions, colitis, or Chron's? I had some success with the diet initially but have had trouble sticking with it lately, in part because I tell myself that since I haven't been diagnosed with a "serious" condition, it may not be necessary to follow the SCD diet so strictly. I know that the diet must be an all-or-nothing commitment. I've eliminated grains and sugar, but I've been drinking not-so-weak coffee with milk-- the hardest habit to break. I guess I need some more will power and more information. The SCD book doesn't have much to say about IBS. My stools appear normal, but I often have a lot of gas with sharp pains and pass large amounts of clear or white mucus, like egg whites. Sometimes there is blood in the mucus. I only experience diarrhea on the first day of my period. I also feel extremely fatigued during flare-ups. I have a feeling that something more serious than IBS is going on. The symptoms are definitely getting in the way of work and school. I'm pretty happy with my life otherwise, so I don't think stress is a factor. I'm going to the doctor on Friday and am wondering what to say or questions to ask to get something out of the visit--besides advice on cutting out the coffee (which I can give myself). The doctor recommended the Gottshall diet but then said I could introduce some whole grains and other food to test my tolerance. I think she would not have advised this if she thought I had an inflammatory condition. Any advice on sorting through this and getting the best information or treatment? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:31:41 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Irritable Bowel Syndrome In-Reply-To: <199707070236.TAA11861@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:07 AM 7/7/97 UT, you wrote: >Does anyone else on the list have irritable bowel syndrome, or another kind of > "benign" diagnosis doctors give after ruling out cancer, inflammatory >conditions, colitis, or Chron's? I had some success with the diet initially >but have had trouble sticking with it lately, in part because I tell myself >that since I haven't been diagnosed with a "serious" condition, it may not be >necessary to follow the SCD diet so strictly. I know that the diet must be >an all-or-nothing commitment. I've eliminated grains and sugar, but I've >been drinking not-so-weak coffee with milk-- the hardest habit to break. I >guess I need some more will power and more information. The SCD book doesn't >have much to say about IBS. > If it walks like a duck .... >My stools appear normal, but I often have a lot of gas with sharp pains and >pass large amounts of clear or white mucus, like egg whites. Sometimes there >is blood in the mucus. I only experience diarrhea on the first day of my >period. I also feel extremely fatigued during flare-ups. I have a feeling >that something more serious than IBS is going on. The symptoms are definitely >getting in the way of work and school. I'm pretty happy with my life >otherwise, so I don't think stress is a factor. > >I'm going to the doctor on Friday and am wondering what to say or questions to >ask to get something out of the visit--besides advice on cutting out the >coffee (which I can give myself). The doctor recommended the Gottshall diet Hey, what kind of great MD do YOU have? >but then said I could introduce some whole grains and other food to test my >tolerance. I think she would not have advised this if she thought I had an >inflammatory condition. > >Any advice on sorting through this and getting the best information or >treatment? > >Thanks > > If you've read Elaine's book, you'll remember she says "Try it fanatically for a month and see your results" ... esp. coffee with milk, that's worse even than just plain coffee, I've heard from several sources (but don't ask me to explain why because I don'tdrink it so I didn't pay attention to the rationale). Have a go at it ... you'll feel better overall, not just in your gut! Best wishes, D ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:00:37 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dempsey <stellar1@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Re: Dairy Intolerance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Anna, Thanks for your response and telling me your experience with the allergy testing. I too am skeptical that the allergy tests will turn up anything. But I actually am glad you're telling me to really not get my hopes up, so I won't get them up. I hate when I get my hopes up and then there's nothing conclusive. I have had enough of vague responses from health practitioners! I'm going to do mine through the Meridian lab in Washington state, a blood test. Right now I am doing a process of elimination thing, which is grueling because sometimes I don't get a reaction for 72 hrs after I've eaten something. Major drag. I want to ask you, what are the beginning signs of the anaphalaxis thing, as you experience it? I know what a full blown anaphalctic reaction is, but I have a feeling I might have some tiny ones because my face gets red and sometime my chest feels slightly tight for a few minutes, could be like an asthma thing too. I am trying to avoid foods that do this, but it is painstaking work. Take care, Denise ACB wrote: > > >Don't get your hopes up about allergy testing - the doctors are not > >very sympathetic to food allergies. > > > >Good Luck, > > > >Lori > > I agree about not getting your hopes up about allergy testing. I've been > there, done that, as they say. I had a Vega test done by a Naturopath, which > uses a special machine, electric current and samples of about 25 different > allergens in little vials. And also an extensive blood allergy test called IgG > IgE or something to that effect at another Naturopath. This one tested me for > about 200 different foods, spices, etc. Both of these tests are supposed to > find allergies, intolerances, and sensitivities. I've been to several NDs. > All the results of these allergy tests came out ambiguous and did not hold > true, which was really disappointing to me. At the time, I thought that this > allergy thing WAS the answer. The things I absolutely KNEW I was allergic to > because I get the early stages of anaphalaxis when I eat them, did not even > show up on these tests, so now I don't trust them. When I questioned the > doctor about this, they said that these tests only test for so called "hidden > allergies" not the obvious ones. I didn't buy that. I don't know about the > skin scratch allergy tests that the MDs do. I hear they are mainly good to > test for airborne things, or contact dermatitis type reaction allergens, and > not so good for foods, because foods are not introduced through the skin, but > rather, through the mucosa of the digestive tract. > Anna ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:04:09 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dempsey <stellar1@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Re: Dairy Allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Will, No, actually, I have found that I have an allergic response to the regular cheddar and other hard cheeses like jack. Also butter, which I have used with great abundance since being on the diet! I wish I could tolerate the yogurt, but for me I always became too bloated after eating it, so I never really have been using it. Best wishes, Denise William Laing wrote: > Hi Denise and the Group > > Was this cheese you speak of DCCC? > Are you or will you stay with the yoghurt? > > Happy Fourth,and good health. > > Will ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:10:26 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dempsey <stellar1@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Re: Dairy Intolerance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lori, That's great that you can now eat eggs. Quite frankly, I don't understand the whole allergy thing. For instance, if we have an allergy now, does it mean it's likely a life-long thing, and if not, what are the factors. These are the kinds of questions I find hard to get answers to. As for the allergy test, I'm going to do a blood test through a lab in Washington state called Meridian. My husband is an acupuncturist and I can very fortunately do it through him. Have you had negative experiences have your docs take your allergies seriously? Or is it, they just don't know what to do for them, so they hem and haw? I find that since my symptom are relatively "subtle," (by docs standards, not mine), I find I am treated as if I have psychosomatic problems more than "real" ones. It gets kind of old. Take care, Denise Feith, Lori wrote: > > I have been on the diet for about 4 weeks and have not been able to > tolerate any milk products, however, I knew before that I had a milk > protein intolerance. I was hoping that following this diet would > eventually allow me to eat yogurt, etc. I thought this only because > I could not eat eggs before and now I am able to! > > Don't get your hopes up about allergy testing - the doctors are not > very sympathetic to food allergies. > > Good Luck, > > Lori ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:26:43 -0600 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: William Laing <wlaing@TELUSPLANET.NET> Subject: Re: receipes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: richard dodge <rdodge@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: Re: receipes > Date: Sunday, July 06, 1997 10:43 AM > > > Hi everybody: > > I'm trying the diet, even though I'm not the one with IBD, my adult son is. > I'm trying it to find out just how much trouble it is; I've been doing it > since June 5th. My reaction: the food's fine, the cooking's time > consuming if you don't just want to live on bananas and peanut butter or > some other quick food that you like and is Kosher on the scd. And I'm in > Texas, where the fruits and veggies are plentiful and cheap, and my son's > in Sweden where this is not the case. So I'm gathering all the lore, thank > you all for your fascinating info and the recipes. > > In particular regard to Karen's recipes, including mayonaise: what about > the worry of using raw eggs? A neighbor who sells us fresh yard eggs told > me the chickens have salmonella in the ovaries--some large percentage of > chickens in this country, at least. My sister read in the paper that you > can zap raw eggs (OUT OF THE SHELL) in the microwave and kill samlmonella, > but she wasn't thinking of this diet and didn't notice for how long. She's > going to call the paper; when I find out I'll get back to you. Salmonella > is particularly dangerous for people suffering from IBD, I have heard. I > might have heard it from this list, I don't know. I have 3-ring binders > full of information, but I'm just beginning to organize it so I can > retrieve it. > > I made the carrot cake, it was perfect. I make a lot of chicken soup. I'm > making veggie soups, mashing it up in the food processor, and chilling it. > It's fine with a little fresh basil or something to snap it up; chilling > seems to diminish the flavor. My neighbor's giving me tons of fresh > tomatoes, so I'm being good and not using canned. I was very impressed > with Elaine writing on that particular issues. I am eating canned > kippers--very tasty and very satisfying. > > Dr. Holland wrote the following to the IBD list (Vol. 8, No.42): > > ". . . . why a diet with the most allergenic protein mix known to mankind > should work is beyond me. The SCD diet people are not too bright. If they > tought about waht the immune response in an allergic response is compared > to what the response is in Crohn's they might say something halfway smart. > but there are no studies that even suggest that the scd diet is helpful. > There are problems that respond to parts of the diet, but those are well > known and are easier to tolderate than the scd diet." > > > >From my husband's experience I would caution against eating raw nuts on an > empty stomach-- he's gotten an extreme allergic reaction to that. And I'd > say that nuts, even cooked, should be treated with caution, integrated into > a balanced diet. In other words, I can see how it wouldn't be smart to go > nuts on nut muffins and cakes and what not and binge on them. But it's > never good to binge on one food. So does anyone else have any comments on > Dr. Holland's statment? There's something in the Lutz article concerning > what might be the same thing--that the scd diet will triggger a reaction. > But what I don't understand is why the establishment doctors act as if the > medications they are prescribing are more benign than eating chicken and > steak and veggies and fruit and yogurt every day! I'm happy Dr. Holland is > engaging in real dialogue with people suffering from IBD. I'm not taking > offence, I'm just puzzled about the vehemence of the reaction. > > Hope everybody is having a wonderful 4th of July weekend. > > KD in Texas Hello Kd Re: the good Doctor. God didnt make little green apples, and it dont rain in Indianapolis in the summer time. Will ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:30:58 +0200 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: gwozdz <gwozdz@HRZ.TU-FREIBERG.DE> Subject: Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I found an article on "Current Medical Therapy for Inflamatory Bowel Disease" on the net lately (Full text under: http://www.sma.org/smj/96jun2.htm). Especially the part on "Short-Chain Fatty Acids" (see below) aroused my interest. Does anyone of you know a brand name of such a medicament? Pharmacists and doctors here haven`t heard of it at all. Miroslav Germany "Short-Chain Fatty Acids Short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), especially butyrate, are the preferred energy substrate for distal colonic epithelial cells. Decreased fecal concentrations of SCFA have been shown to occur in patients with ulcerative colitis but not Crohn's colitis. Table 3 summarizes clinical studies on the use of SCFA enemas for active distal ulcerative colitis. The clinical response rates of 56% to 90% are slightly lower than those reported for hydrocortison or mesalamine enemas. The uniqueness of SCFA therapy is that the presumed mechanism of action is feeding the colon rather than altering its immune response. SCFA therapy given concurrently with other agents might offer even more promise. In fact, one small uncontrolled trial reported a 100% response rate using a combination SCFA/5-ASA enema therapy in patients with previously refractory distal ulcerative colitis." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:30:44 +0000 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Comments: Authenticated sender is <feith@[198.168.103.1]> From: "Feith, Lori" <feith@CHAMPLAINCOLLEGE.QC.CA> Organization: Champlain College Subject: Re: Dairy Intolerance Please remember that there is a big difference between an allergy and an intolerance. An allergy will give you a severe reaction - sometimes put you in the hospital. An intolerance is your body reacting in some way (there are many forms) but not severe. The real difference between the two is that an allergy they can test for and find concrete results. With an intolerance it is almost impossible to pin point it. It has taken me almost 4 years to determine what my problem is. I have been to every type of doctor you can imagine except a ND. None of them had any encouraging words to offer me. Basically I found out through the process of elimination which foods were bothering me and through reading as much information I can on related subjects in the library and through the internet. I live in Canada so our whole medical system is quite different from yours. I hope you have an understanding doctor. Good luck. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:56:45 PST Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: ACB <benkea@MAILHOST.PAC.DFO.CA> Subject: allergies In-Reply-To: <03951260707991/1047196@VANHQ1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN >Hi Anna, > >Thanks for your response and telling me your experience with the allergy >testing. I too am skeptical that the allergy tests will turn up >anything. But I actually am glad you're telling me to really not get my >hopes up, so I won't get them up. I hate when I get my hopes up and >then there's nothing conclusive. I have had enough of vague responses >from health practitioners! I'm going to do mine through the Meridian >lab in Washington state, a blood test. Right now I am doing a process >of elimination thing, which is grueling because sometimes I don't get a >reaction for 72 hrs after I've eaten something. Major drag. > I want to ask you, what are the beginning signs of the anaphalaxis >thing, as you experience it? I know what a full blown anaphalctic >reaction is, but I have a feeling I might have some tiny ones because my >face gets red and sometime my chest feels slightly tight for a few >minutes, could be like an asthma thing too. I am trying to avoid foods >that do this, but it is painstaking work. > >Take care, >Denise Hi Denise, Meridian Valley Labs in Kent, Washington is connected with the Tahoma Clinic where I went to see Dr. Lamson. He's an ND, who has a reputation for successfully treating IBD. My ex-boyfriend, who was also an ND told me to go to Lamson. I ended up with a lifetime refillable prescription for DHEA, and I'm supposed to keep in touch with him via phone consultations. The whole thing was very pricey, and even a short phone call is $85 US. I live in Canada, so going down there was a big deal. Whether or not the DHEA helped, I still don't know. Maybe it helped me get off prednisone, but maybe not. I can't tell. I still take it on and off, in case it does do something. I had a variety of lab tests done in that lab and the results were all pretty much worthless. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't really bother. Instead, I would have gotten this book by Ray Sahlien (not sure about the spelling) about DHEA. The book is excellent. He interviews doctors all across North America about their practices and experiences with this new and controversial supplement. It gives dosage recommendations and everything. It's well worth reading. It reports the truth, not just the pretty picture of DHEA. Like, the fact that there is really no evidence of it helping certain diseases, etc. I got it at the library. Anyway, the point behind this story is that the blood allergy test there is the same as all the other tests I had there. Costly, and not very useful. This is just my opinion. If someone had told me that prior to when I went there, I may have gone ahead anyway, but I just thought I'd give my experience. I do think the lab is good. They do tests there that MDs don't even know about. Some of the tests were actually invented by Dr. Wright, the Director of the Tahoma Clinic. He has written several books as well. Anyway, if you think that this allergy thing is really the problem, then this blood test is probably the best out of all the choices out there (in terms of allergy testing). I mean, it's probably better than Vega Testing, or MD scratch testing. (It sounds like what you're getting is an IgG IgE test.) But again, I have my doubts because the results I got were so ambiguous with what I already knew to be true. And if I tried to live my life according to those results, it would be very difficult if not impossible. The results list like 200 foods, spices, etc, and 1/2 of them I am supposively intolerant to on some level, so I am supposed to rotate or eliminate them. It's very complex to implement. I found that the SCD was easier to handle. Doing both regiments at the same time is hard. I did try both. The allergy results just didn't impress me. To answer your question about the anaphalaxis symptoms, If I eat raw carrots, kiwi fruit, avacado, or raw hazelnuts, I get the same reaction. The inside of my mouth and throat gets all tingly and feels sort of burning and my throat starts to tighten up. Breathing is a little harder too. My lips and mouth swell a little. The whole thing is VERY unpleasant and a bit scary at times. These are signs of an allergic reaction, and if I continue to eat these foods, I risk actually getting an actual anaphalactic shock reaction. I have tempted fate every now and then, like eating a little bite of one of those foods every 6 months or something, just to test it out. When I get the same reaction again, I know it is still true. You see, allergies can come and go over the years. In a way, many times, people can DEVELOP allergies to things from eating them too much. This was the case for me with Kiwi, because I used to eat just tons of them because my aunt grew them and every summer we'd eat them every day. Back then it didn't effect me, but then years later when I tried one, I got the reaction. With the other items I mentioned, I don't recall eating too much of them, so these ones just developed for unknown reasons. But the point is, I didn't always have the allergy. I used to eat avacados and carrots with no problem. Some of the reactions are milder than others. Like, avacado gives me a mild reaction, but if I drink anything with carrot juice for example, it's very scary. I simply avoid it completely because it IS so scary when your throat starts to close up and you can't breathe. I've never had to go to the hospital for this though. I just wait a while until it passes. It takes a few hours for it to go away. The funny thing was, none of these foods even showed up at all on my IgG IgE blood test results. That's the main reason I doubted them. Hope this info helps in your quest for the answers. Anna ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:15:24 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Prousalis <j-pro@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I just wanted to say something about the yogurt that we make and eat. I tried to stop eating the yogurt and stick with everything else (a little experiment you might say). For me the yogurt helps me plenty. Once I was off of it there was no difference, but about one week later the big "D" came back. I waited it out for about three more weeks to see maybe it was something else, only to be 100% sure. Well needless to say I started with the yogurt again on July 1, 1997 and the big "D" stopped two days later. Well that is my story for the day. Good Luck! Jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:14:19 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Jim, Just goes to show how we are all different. I do not eat yogurt it makes me very ill . I have been on the diet since last fall. And it is no problem for me to go without yogurt. I was glad when I read in the book Eat Right for your Type that the author agreed that yogurt and blood type O do not like each other. So for those that can't abide the yogurt take heart the diet can still work for you. Kay ---------- > From: Jim Prousalis <j-pro@MINDSPRING.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: yogurt > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 4:15 PM > > Hi! I just wanted to say something about the yogurt that we make and eat. > I tried to stop eating the yogurt and stick with everything else (a little > experiment you might say). For me the yogurt helps me plenty. Once I was > off of it there was no difference, but about one week later the big "D" > came back. I waited it out for about three more weeks to see maybe it was > something else, only to be 100% sure. Well needless to say I started with > the yogurt again on July 1, 1997 and the big "D" stopped two days later. > Well that is my story for the day. > > Good Luck! > > Jim ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:00:26 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: <199707070930.CAA02890@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:30 AM 7/7/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I found an article on "Current Medical Therapy for Inflamatory Bowel >Disease" on the net lately >(Full text under: http://www.sma.org/smj/96jun2.htm). > >Especially the part on "Short-Chain Fatty Acids" (see below) aroused my >interest. Does anyone of you know a brand name of such a medicament? >Pharmacists and doctors here haven`t heard of it at all. > Hi, Miroslav. I've been trying to find out about this, too, without much success (haven't had too much time). I also came across a paper that said they were studying aloe vera for SFA's. SFA's (like butyric acid) are also produced in a normally-functioning bowel from enzymes working on fibre. >Miroslav >Germany > > >"Short-Chain Fatty Acids > >Short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), especially butyrate, are the preferred >energy substrate for distal colonic epithelial cells. Decreased fecal >concentrations of SCFA have been shown to occur in patients with >ulcerative colitis but not Crohn's colitis. Table 3 summarizes clinical >studies on the use of SCFA enemas for active distal ulcerative colitis. >The clinical response rates of 56% to 90% are slightly lower than those >reported for hydrocortison or mesalamine enemas. The uniqueness of SCFA >therapy is that the presumed mechanism of action is feeding the colon >rather than altering its immune response. SCFA therapy given >concurrently with other agents might offer even more promise. In fact, >one small uncontrolled trial reported a 100% response rate using a >combination SCFA/5-ASA enema therapy in patients with previously >refractory distal ulcerative colitis." > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:17:05 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: yogurt & Type "O" bloods In-Reply-To: <199707072126.OAA06675@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:14 PM 7/7/97 -0400, you wrote: > Dear Jim, > Just goes to show how we are all different. I do not eat >yogurt it makes me very ill . I have been on the diet since last fall. And >it is no problem for me to go without yogurt. I was glad when I read in >the book Eat Right for your Type that the author agreed that yogurt and >blood type O do not like each other. > So for those that can't abide the yogurt take heart the diet can still >work for you. > Holy Cow, Kay, I missed that completely in "Eat Right 4 Your Type ..." ... I know he says "dairy" but I figured yoghurt would be OK, and it DOES seem to work OK for me now that I'm no longer adding milk powder to it as I was doing for ages & finally gave up in disgusting thinking "This does NOT work for me!" I'll have to re-think that, but as I said, when I was making & eating "milk powder added" yoghurt it was like drinking milk, like, "forget it!" major problems; now, using just plain 3% regular milk, things seem quite fine. I'll have to keep tabs on that to make sure I'm not deluding myself ... thanks for pointing that out about d'Adamo's book. Kay >---------- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ D. Hartl RMT Specialist in: Orthopaedic Assessment - Tactile Therapies - Pain Solutions White Rock, British Columbia %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:27:50 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Dietmar Hartl <"painsolv" > Subject: Re: Dairy Intolerance In-Reply-To: <199707070500.WAA19743@ktk1.SMARTT.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:00 PM 7/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Anna, > >Thanks for your response and telling me your experience with the allergy >testing. I too am skeptical that the allergy tests will turn up >anything. But I actually am glad you're telling me to really not get my >hopes up, so I won't get them up. I hate when I get my hopes up and >then there's nothing conclusive. I have had enough of vague responses >from health practitioners! I'm going to do mine through the Meridian >lab in Washington state, a blood test. Right now I am doing a process >of elimination thing, which is grueling because sometimes I don't get a >reaction for 72 hrs after I've eaten something. Major drag. > I want to ask you, what are the beginning signs of the anaphalaxis >thing, as you experience it? I know what a full blown anaphalctic >reaction is, but I have a feeling I might have some tiny ones because my >face gets red and sometime my chest feels slightly tight for a few >minutes, could be like an asthma thing too. Sounds like you're feeling the thing, all right. Dietmar >I am trying to avoid foods >that do this, but it is painstaking work. > >Take care, >Denise > >ACB wrote: >> >> >Don't get your hopes up about allergy testing - the doctors are not >> >very sympathetic to food allergies. >> > >> >Good Luck, >> > >> >Lori >> >> I agree about not getting your hopes up about allergy testing. I've been >> there, done that, as they say. I had a Vega test done by a Naturopath, which >> uses a special machine, electric current and samples of about 25 different >> allergens in little vials. And also an extensive blood allergy test called IgG >> IgE or something to that effect at another Naturopath. This one tested me for >> about 200 different foods, spices, etc. Both of these tests are supposed to >> find allergies, intolerances, and sensitivities. I've been to several NDs. >> All the results of these allergy tests came out ambiguous and did not hold >> true, which was really disappointing to me. At the time, I thought that this >> allergy thing WAS the answer. The things I absolutely KNEW I was allergic to >> because I get the early stages of anaphalaxis when I eat them, did not even >> show up on these tests, so now I don't trust them. When I questioned the >> doctor about this, they said that these tests only test for so called "hidden >> allergies" not the obvious ones. I didn't buy that. I don't know about the >> skin scratch allergy tests that the MDs do. I hear they are mainly good to >> test for airborne things, or contact dermatitis type reaction allergens, and >> not so good for foods, because foods are not introduced through the skin, but >> rather, through the mucosa of the digestive tract. >> Anna > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 05:34:50 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: BILL <btren@BESTWEB.NET> Subject: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been making and eating yogurt using store bought plain yogurt as a starter with no adverse results as far as I can tell. I did have one batch that I had to dump, probably because I had kept the "starter" too long. Here is a question that has been on my mind for a few days: If the problem with comercial yogurt is that the lactose has not been converted fully due to the short time being processed, but it still is "alive" enough to be used successfully as a starter, and even though it is kept refrigerated it still remains active, (here's the question) why can't comercial yogurt be kept at 100-110 degrees f. for 12-24 hrs. to "finish off" the lactose conversion? Any ideas why this wouldn't work? Seems like a lot less trouble and expense especially when I can only buy plain yogurt in quart containers. Just wondering. seeya......bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:46:25 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Prousalis <j-pro@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: Re: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Wrote: I have been making and eating yogurt using store bought plain yogurt as a starter with no adverse results as far as I can tell. I did have one batch that I had to dump, probably because I had kept the "starter" too long. Here is a question that has been on my mind for a few days: If the problem with commercial yogurt is that the lactose has not been converted fully due to the short time being processed, but it still is "alive" enough to be used successfully as a starter, and even though it is kept refrigerated it still remains active, (here's the question) why can't commercial yogurt be kept at 100-110 degrees f. for 12-24 hr.. to "finish off" the lactose conversion? Any ideas why this wouldn't work? Seems like a lot less trouble and expense especially when I can only buy plain yogurt in quart containers. Just wondering. seeya......bill I would think, but don't quote me on it that once the yogurt is taken away from the 100-110 degrees that the fermentation period is over. Anybody have any other ideas on this? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM> Subject: Re: Why??? In-Reply-To: <199707062222.PAA02573@vader.inow.com> from "Dietmar Hartl" at Jul 5, 97 04:34:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. Our diet is not a sacred religion, nor is Elaine either a Goddess or infallible. Questioning and wanting more information on the diet's mechanism's and principles, especially when one follows it and gets great initial results but then deteriorates more so than the book says will happen, is normal and desirable. I'm convinced I'm doing much better on the diet than I would be otherwise. At the same time, I think we ought to be able to share our doubts and concerns. Changing topics, I too read Eating Right for your Type. The author says that as a person with type AB blood I should be able to eat dairy products, which I can. I was wondering if Denise and others who are not able to eat yoghurt are the type the author says should avoid dairy: type O. >> Right. At some point (like when you're miserably sick and have found >no answers) and you hear about so many folks who've tried this and say it >works, even if in some cases not 100% but better than anything else that's >ever come down the pike, well, how about packing away your "Doubting Thomas >why's?" into the attic trunk for a while and just go with the program, see >how it works for you? >The "constant why's" types, well, hey, get the hell out of your own way and >get into gear ... brains don't help much in this case, eating by the plan >does! >We can discuss all the possible "why's" at a later date, first, let's get >well. Does that make sense? The trouble is even though we strictly follow the diet, and don't eat certain foods until we're supposed to, not all of us continue to get well, so we want to know what changes might help, get a better understanding of the diet's principles. etc. Does *that* make sense? Tom Robinson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:41:20 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Roberta Gelatt <Roberta.Gelatt@NORMICRO.COM> Subject: Re: Information about Wolfgang Lutz Journal Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Miroslav I am interested in taking the English abstract of Wolfgang Lutz's Journal Article to my MD. Would you be able to provide the title of the article and the date it was published. Thanks Roberta Does Anyone know any details about the diet that Wolfgang Lutz recommends? Thanks again. Roberta At 10:42 AM 7/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >--------------42D23885184D >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi everyone! > >I got the article by Wolfgang Lutz in the Munich Medical Journal lately >and I thought you might be interested in the abstract that is given in >English. In general the article states that a low (not particularly a >specific) carbohydrate diet helps most crohn`s and colitis sufferers >remarkably. Unfortunately the article does not contain any details about >the prescribed diet or forbidden foods. > >And I want to refer you to a website I came across which is a very >thorough collection of material about a possible cause of IBD: >Mycobacteria (paratubercolosis and avium). > >Abstract: > >"Low-Carbohydrate Diet in Crohn's Disease: >A Low-Carbohydrate Diet (72 g/24 h) has a very favourable effect on >pa-tients with Crohn's disease. Symptoms and signs tend to subside after >6 months in 70, after one year in 80 and after 1 1/2 years in 90% of the >instances. Obviously there is no tendency of relapses, contrary to >ulcerative colitis which also reacts to this diet favourably. Since >nearly all gastrointestinal patients tend to accelerate the passage of >ingesta through their intestines, the idea arises that ingesta not fully >degraded are "persorbed" in the terminal ileum and cause allergic >reactions with granulomatous lesions typical for Crohn's disease." > >I don`t write very often but I appreciate very much what everyone on the >list contributes. My experience is that we can only help ourselves >because most of the doctors know less than we do about our disease. > >Regards >Miroslav >Germany > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:39:34 +0300 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: "ARLENE C. BRILL" <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> Subject: an interesting coincidence?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have been following this group for a few months...i was drawn here because of the health problems i was experiencing with my intestines, etc. i modified my diet but at the time could not get enough info about the Diet to follow it. i did start eating more yogurt and less bread/carbos...but i was still dragging around week to week, day to day...no energy and lots of pain... well, i moved to this new apartment three and a half weeks ago and i have to tell you all something...the pain is gone!! the energy is returning...i'm starting to feel more like Me again... i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture problem....i had mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is dry...totally..with lots of sunlight so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and that's what was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? arlene in istanbul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:22:35 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: an interesting coincidence?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: ARLENE C. BRILL <acbrill@ESCORTNET.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: an interesting coincidence?? > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 10:39 AM > Dear Arlene, Sure it is very possible, my sister -inlaw just called me two weeks ago all excited that maybe she found a cure for me. ( I'm the one with Behcets ) She ran into a friend who had been sick for years and this women found a doctor that put her on a diet similar to the SCD but she is very allergic to mold spores. She only eats meat without additives, she cannot leave fruit or vegetables out on the counter for even a short while , ( since the doctor told her it develops spores in a very short time. Well long story short , the regime this lady followed fixed all that ails her. I wish it was so simple for myself, this diet has greatly helped my colon.Now I need to find cures for the other parts of me that ail. My first flare of Behcets was at age 18 to 19 and a half , I am now 43. Funny thing is that I went into a controllable phase all the way up to age 39 is just co- incidence that I went on Doctor Atkins at age 19 and a half .( I had packed on a few newly wed lbs ) His diet sure is similar to the SCD. Sadly my hunt for a total cure is still on as I have neuro involvement, if I could beat these headaches I would be singing from the hill tops. Also I have a lot of muscle degeneration. A while back someone wrote about what Behcets is it was a very misleading and limited description. Here is my description of what Behcets is although I will miss many symptoms , I think all will get the idea. I will list the ones that seem to be shared by almost all in our Behcet's group. Plus some shared by luckily a few ( Blindness) Mouth and genital cankers ( Mouth more frequent) Arthritis ( unlike what was written it does not take a long time to develop , especially when aided by large doses of pred. ) Involvement of the entire digestive tract. from the mouth right down to the rectum and vagina, Often mis diagnosed as CD or UC. This also includes the sinuses. ( this along with head trouble was my first symptom bad enough to complain about) Neuro involvement Migraines , peripheral neuropathy over ninety percent of the people in our behcets group which numbers 150 have a big problem with head troubles. MRI's show white patches on the brain from the headaches Skin rashes and photo sensitivity . Only 25 % of United states patients respond to the pin prick test. Blindness , luckily in the US this also runs at a low percent. Fatigue and muscle degeneration It can also attack the organ of it's choice Now here is an interesting tidbit Behcets people all seem to gain weight in large amounts when put on steroids. All the people I know with CD still seem to lose even when on large doses. So if you gain while on them think about Behcets. ( That is only my personal observation) I try very hard to get people on our Behcets list to try the Scd or variations of it . I would say the ten of us on the list that use alternative methods and special diets are in the best shape. Now here is what really bugged me on the post someone else wrote about Behcets that it seems to run in ten year cycles. WRONG !!!!! Many in our group have been suffering for 20 , 30 and even more years. We have quite a few teens with it also. Even some babies, it can strike a person at ANY AGE. I have not covered all the symptoms but I hope it will give all of you a bit of a clearer picture of just what Behcets is. I am so happy that you have found relief Arlene , I would suggest if you think mold is a big problem for you that you keep your fruit and veggies in the fridge and scrub them just before eating. I hope you still limit your bread and other carbo intake. I lent my SCd diet book to a women in England , but when I get it back I would gladly mail it to you. Take Care, Kay > > i wonder, i just wonder....the other house had a terrible moisture > problem....i had > mold and mildew climbing up the walls in the bedroom and there was NO WAY > to get rid of it...i tried for 3 years...this new house is > dry...totally..with lots of sunlight > so that the mold and mildew won't even make an appearance. > > is it possible that my body was reacting to the 'spores' in the air??? and > that's what > was causing an auto-immune response?? could it possibly be so?? > > arlene in istanbul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: witkowski <witkowskis@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Subject: Re: Why??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM> > To: SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU > Subject: Re: Why??? > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 9:15 PM > Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's > too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are > not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. > Dear Tom , I could not agree with you more, We surly do not want to become guilty of just what many doctor's are guilty of. Questions are a good thing. We are each unique after all. I am sure that Dietmar did not mean to sound so harsh, but we all need to be careful about not judging another and being there to help not criticize. I got beat up on this list for a question months ago and just became a lurker for three months . Example sometimes it seems to me that yogurt just becomes to much of a focus to people on this, I have absolutely no trouble WITHOUT yogurt. I never liked the stuff anyway. But I don't mind seeing all the discussion on it for it could be a key for someone else. But one does not have to have it. I am proof of that. Also we have to keep in mind that some people have not had access to the book , so we are all here to (gently) help them with their questions. I am home from camp today to do laundry so after my long post to Arlene I need to wrap this up. But here is a little idea if a couple people have the time maybe they could post a Sunday through Sat sample menu of what they eat in a week. I bet that would help the people who cannot access the book. Take Care, Kay ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 05:34:50 PDT Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: BILL <btren@BESTWEB.NET> Subject: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been making and eating yogurt using store bought plain yogurt as a starter with no adverse results as far as I can tell. I did have one batch that I had to dump, probably because I had kept the "starter" too long. Here is a question that has been on my mind for a few days: If the problem with comercial yogurt is that the lactose has not been converted fully due to the short time being processed, but it still is "alive" enough to be used successfully as a starter, and even though it is kept refrigerated it still remains active, (here's the question) why can't comercial yogurt be kept at 100-110 degrees f. for 12-24 hrs. to "finish off" the lactose conversion? Any ideas why this wouldn't work? Seems like a lot less trouble and expense especially when I can only buy plain yogurt in quart containers. Just wondering. seeya......bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:46:25 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Jim Prousalis <j-pro@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: Re: yogurt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Wrote: I have been making and eating yogurt using store bought plain yogurt as a starter with no adverse results as far as I can tell. I did have one batch that I had to dump, probably because I had kept the "starter" too long. Here is a question that has been on my mind for a few days: If the problem with commercial yogurt is that the lactose has not been converted fully due to the short time being processed, but it still is "alive" enough to be used successfully as a starter, and even though it is kept refrigerated it still remains active, (here's the question) why can't commercial yogurt be kept at 100-110 degrees f. for 12-24 hr.. to "finish off" the lactose conversion? Any ideas why this wouldn't work? Seems like a lot less trouble and expense especially when I can only buy plain yogurt in quart containers. Just wondering. seeya......bill I would think, but don't quote me on it that once the yogurt is taken away from the 100-110 degrees that the fermentation period is over. Anybody have any other ideas on this? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Tom Robinson <tomr@VADER.INOW.COM> Subject: Re: Why??? In-Reply-To: <199707062222.PAA02573@vader.inow.com> from "Dietmar Hartl" at Jul 5, 97 04:34:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding what Dietmar said below, this kind of thinking disturbs me. It's too much like that of M.D.'s who prescribe their usual medicines but are not willing to consider the SCD diet or other alternatives. Our diet is not a sacred religion, nor is Elaine either a Goddess or infallible. Questioning and wanting more information on the diet's mechanism's and principles, especially when one follows it and gets great initial results but then deteriorates more so than the book says will happen, is normal and desirable. I'm convinced I'm doing much better on the diet than I would be otherwise. At the same time, I think we ought to be able to share our doubts and concerns. Changing topics, I too read Eating Right for your Type. The author says that as a person with type AB blood I should be able to eat dairy products, which I can. I was wondering if Denise and others who are not able to eat yoghurt are the type the author says should avoid dairy: type O. >> Right. At some point (like when you're miserably sick and have found >no answers) and you hear about so many folks who've tried this and say it >works, even if in some cases not 100% but better than anything else that's >ever come down the pike, well, how about packing away your "Doubting Thomas >why's?" into the attic trunk for a while and just go with the program, see >how it works for you? >The "constant why's" types, well, hey, get the hell out of your own way and >get into gear ... brains don't help much in this case, eating by the plan >does! >We can discuss all the possible "why's" at a later date, first, let's get >well. Does that make sense? The trouble is even though we strictly follow the diet, and don't eat certain foods until we're supposed to, not all of us continue to get well, so we want to know what changes might help, get a better understanding of the diet's principles. etc. Does *that* make sense? Tom Robinson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:41:20 -0500 Reply-To: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> Sender: Specific Carbohydrate Diet List <SCD@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: Roberta Gelatt <Roberta.Gelatt@NORMICRO.COM> Subject: Re: Information about Wolfgang Lutz Journal Article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Miroslav I am interested in taking the English abstract of Wolfgang Lutz's Journal Article to my MD. Would you be able to provide the title of the article and the date it was published. Thanks Roberta Does Anyone know any details about the diet that Wolfgang Lutz recommends? Thanks again. Roberta At 10:42 AM 7/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >--------------42D23885184D >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi everyone! > >I got the article by Wolfgang Lutz in the Munich Medical Journal lately >and I thought you might be interested in the abstract that is given in >English. In general the article states that a low (not particularly a >specific) carbohydrate diet helps most crohn`s and colitis sufferers >remarkably. Unfortunately the article does not contain any details about >the prescribed diet or forbidden foods. > >And I want to refer you to a website I came across which is a very >thorough collection of material about a possible cause of IBD: >Mycobacteria (paratubercolosis and avium). > >Abstract: > >"Low-Carbohydrate Diet in Crohn's Disease: >A Low-Carbohydrate Diet (72 g/24 h) has a very favourable effect on >pa-tients with Crohn's disease. Symptoms and signs tend to subside after >6 months in 70, after one year in 80 and after 1 1/2 years in 90% of the >instances. Obviously there is no tendency of relapses, contrary to >ulcerative colitis which also reacts to this diet favourably. Since >nearly all gastrointestinal patients tend to accelerate the passage of >ingesta through their intestines, the idea arises that ingesta not fully >degraded are "persorbed" in the terminal ileum and cause allergic >reactions with granulomatous lesions typical for Crohn's disease." > >I don`t write very often but I appreciate very much what everyone on the >list contributes. My experience is that we can only help ourselves >because most of the doctors know less than we do about our disease. > >Regards >Miroslav >Germany >
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