Excerpt from a fax from Elaine Gottschall
To: Lotte Wackerhagen

Date: September 8, 1997

(...) I would like to address this main issue: why commercial yoghurt is unsatisfactory and SHOULD NOT BE USED. This question has been asked me constantly by many people and I have almost run out of patience in going over the biochemistry of this. So, if Mik Aidt would put it into his repository of information on the SCD, I would be most grateful.

Commercial yoghurt
Practically every dairy in Northern America has Dept. of Agriculture instructions for making commercial yoghurt.
They may start with liquid milk straight from the cow (pasteurized) or they may start with milk solids. However, at the beginning, the ADD additional milk solids. This automatically increases the lactose content. For example, if cow's milk originally has 10% lactose (10 gms per 100 mls) then the addition brings it up to 20% or even 30%.
The second step is to introduce the bacterial cultures (usually Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and Steptococcus Thermophilus). At this point the acid/base - the pH of the milk - is much like human fluid, around 7.2-7.3 (almost neutral on the pH scale). The bacteria immediately start converting the lactose to lactic acid which is the primary step in making yoghurt. This brings the pH down from neutral to about 4.5 as the lactic ACID accumulates. (Acid lowers pH as our stomach acid brings the pH of our stomachs down to about 2).
When the pH hits about 4.5, the bacterial enzymes cannot further convert the remaining lactose. Bacterial enzymes (as is true of all enzymes) are very fastidious as to the acid/alkaline enviroment. Because of the addetional lactose added at the beginning of the process, the yoghurt often contains at this stage as much, and probably more, lactose than a glass of milk would.
The companies also use a very short incubation time which is not even sufficient to convert normal milk lactose completely.

Dr. Sidney Haas instructed us to make our own yoghurt. I DID!!! When I studied, I had to learn manufacturing techniques and I did to the best of my ability. I never dreamed that people who are sick as those with IBD would challenge and question and balk at this. It is beyond my ability to understand.

The book doesn't mention this but you really should boil everything that comes in contact with the yoghurt for a few minutes. If you are using plastic items, you can use a dishwasher with a chlorine based detergent with the heat set on high. try to time your yoghurt making activbity to when the dishwasher cycle finishes.
You need to boil for just a minute or so or hold the temp above 60 degrees celsius for at least 15 mins. (this is what the dishwasher should do.
As for the milk, its probably best to let it stand covered, for 15 mins before cooling in a tub of water.

The same principles as canning are applicable



I have noticed many seem to be having trouble making the homemade yogurt.
This particular brand of yogurt maker was recommended to us by another lady
litres at a time in one large batch. The yogurt quality is excellent. For
anyone who may be interested, I purchased mine from a local health food
store for about 70 dollars Canadian. If you have difficulty finding one,
the supplier address is as follows:
Lyo-San Inc., 500 boul. di L'Aeroparc, C.P. 598, Lachute, QC, Canada,
J8H 4G4
I hope this information can be of use to you.

Opskrift på hjemmelavet yoghurt (how to make your own yoghurt - explained in Danish)

Yogurt questions
Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:22:29 GMT


I don't use a yogurt maker, I make mine in the oven by replacing the oven's light bulb with a 60 watt bulb. A 60 watt bulb keeps the temp at exactly 100 degrees in my oven, so it works perfect for me.

I use half & half, not milk to make my yogurt. I bring it to a rolling boil on the stove first to kill all the bacteria in the half & half. I then let it cool to room temp before adding the yogurt culture or you will kill the yogurt culture if its too hot.

Then I put it in the oven in a covered container and turn the light on. If I want real thick, rich yogurt, I usually leave it in for 30 or more hours instead of the usual 24 hours. And I never use any of my homemade yogurt as starter for the next batch. I always buy new starter yogurt from the store.

I don't like the taste of yogurt when you mix honey in it, so I am trying to find different ways to sweeten it. I found that if you finely chop about a cup of raisins and mix it into the yogurt, then leave it in the fridge overnight, the raisins will sweeten the yogurt very nicely. Strawberries will also work.

Kari, I don't know the answer to your question about the affects of temperature (hot or cold) on yogurt after its made. But I hope someone answers it because I would sure like to know.

Jim -A very happy New Year to all!

Re: Yogurt consistency
Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:18:42 GMT

>>Subject: Yogurt consistency
>>I am just getting started with the diet and made my first batch of yogurt
>>using a yogurt maker. I expected it to coagulate like commercial yogurt.
>>Although it is partially coagulated, it is more of a "runny" consistency.
>>Is that normal or did I mess something up?
>I think that the home yogurt will be more runny than the commercial yogurt
>that you buy in the supermarket. It appears that many of the commercial
>yogurts contain pectin which I think would thicken it up.
>Personally I prefer the oven method that Elaine outlines in her book. I make
>3 quarts of 1/2 & 1/2 yogurt about every 8 days and it tastes great.

The yogurt should not be runny. It should be the same consistency of regular commercial yogurt. If it is runny, you likely have done something wrong. Ensure that the starter you are using is fresh. If the commercial yogurt you use for starter is old, the active bacterial culture may be mostly dead. Make sure you heat the milk to boiling temperature, and then cool to room temp. Make sure everything that comes in contact with the yogurt (pots, utensils, yogurt maker cups) are sterilized (very clean), like out of the dishwasher, or washed in hot soapy water. Make sure you do not add any other ingredients to the yogurt besides the milk and the starter. Flavorings are to be added when the yogurt is completely done and chilled.
Hope these tips help. Proper fermenting temperature is also important. If you have an actual yogurt maker, this should not be a problem, whereas the oven method is trickier, because the temp. can fluctuate over the 24 hour period, and you may not know it. This could result in ruined runny yogurt. I remember at one time, someone had posted a whole list of tips for yogurt making. If someone still has this, please post it again.

Re: Yogurt
Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:46:23 GMT

>I have just made my own yogurt for the first time. It came out ok. Less
>tastier and heavier then the commercial product but that must be the price
>for having an all natural yogurt. What do I do with the "water" layer at
>the top of the yogurt? Is that the real thing we should drink or something
>to throw out? Should it me mixed with the yogurt itself? What is that
>liquid, anyway?

Hi roy,

That's Lactic Acid and water mainly the acidophilus love it . In fact
acidophilus means acid loving. So Mix it in and enjoy.



Re: Yogurt consistency

>I am just getting started with the diet and made my first batch of yogurt
>using a yogurt maker. I expected it to coagulate like commercial yogurt.
>Although it is partially coagulated, it is more of a "runny" consistency.
>Is that normal or did I mess something up?

It should be set like custard when you make it . After you scoop it out of the containers it may become runny as the whey separates, that's normal but at end of incubation, it should be set like shop yoghurt. It could be not enough starter or a dead starter, get fresh 'continental style' yoghurt to use as a starter. The name brand yoghurts are more sugar than yoghurt. Also if your temperature is too high or too low, the resulting product will be runny

regards michael

Re: yogurt

>I made a mistake in preparing my yogurt. After I boiled the milk I put
>it in the 'fridge. Then I added the starter yogurt and put the mixture
>into the jars. Then I put the jars in the yogurt maker at 9 a.m.. When
>I got home at 5 p.m. I realized that I forgot to turn on the yogurt
>machine. DOH! So, did I ruin the batch?

Probably not, It's a case of competition for the available food, if a
particular strain of bacteria that grows well at room temperature is in
there, then Yes start again, but if you sterilized the jars before with
steam, boiling water or chlorine, I wouldn't worry. If not, don't take a
chance. The acidophilus don't grow well at room temperature and the bad
bacteria may have gotten a good head start so that there may be significant
population of bad guys in there.

regards Michael

yogurt for sensitive stomachs
Tue, 18 Feb 1997 15:45:32 GMT

I used to have to avoid homemade yogurt because it upset my stomach every time
and caused me to feel sick, sometimes inducing diarreah. I used to make it
using a good commercial yogurt as the starter, exactly as Elaine says in the
book. I was upset that I couldn't eat the yogurt, as it is one of the main
benefitial aspects to the diet.

Recently I made the yogurt using a powdered storebought yogurt starter and I
found I could tolerate the yogurt no problem. I don't know if my body changed,
allowing me to tolerate yogurt in general, or if the commercial starter made it
different. My yogurt always turned out just fine looking, and I'm sure I was
doing it right. Anyway, I just thought I'd let people know that if they have
been having trouble tolerating their homemade yogurt made with commercial
yogurt as starter (containing only milk ingredients and bacterial culture),
they should try making it with powdered starter and see if it makes a
difference. Usually you can find it in health food type stores. The brand I
got is called "Yogourmet". One day I'm going to make it the old way, using
commercial starter, and see if it adversely affects me.

Re: yogurt for sensitive stomachs
Wed, 19 Feb 1997 5:25:02 GMT

Hello to the Group:

I have never cared for the commericial yohurt for use as a starter.
I suspect the bacterial culture is likely all dead long before I ever
got it home. It didnot taste as nice as what I am using now.

I have used for three years now a dry powered form of yogurt culture,
that I buy in the health food stores. One package (approx. $1.50)
.33 oz. can make approx. 5 to 6 quarts of yoghurt or two quarts every
third day.
It is called Rosell( that is the name of the company) and made in
Montreal Que. Can. H2P 2M6 . I buy 6 packages and will last me 6
weeks.Try your favorite health food store. This company has been around
since 1934.


Yogurt makers

Hi everyone,
I'm a recent subscriber to the scd mailing list. I started on the diet in Dec 96 and continued till about the end of Jan of 97. At the beginning of the diet, I notice immediate improvement in my UC condition, however, I started having a return of symptoms (I figure from my use of soy sauce). I stopped the diet and am preparing to go back on it with renewed intensity.
Just a couple of questions, when I was on the diet, I made the yogurt using a 60 watt light bulb in a cardboard box, because my oven was too large. I got the temperature just right 100-105, and the yogurt came out alright. I have recently purchased a commercial yogurt maker and the temperature is too high, above 115 using my thermometer. I was wondering if all commercial yogurt makers are designed to make yogurt within this temperature range. IF so, then the yogurt will not be made properly right?


Re: yogurt makers
Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:51:30 GMT

Hi Ryan,

Just make sure when you test the temperature, you are testing inside the
cups with liquid, preferably yoghurt/milk in them. I rang the manufacturer
about this and they said the temperature outside the cups has to be higher,
because it drops as it passes though the glass and is conducted through the
full cup of milk/yoghurt.

Regards Michael

SCD: Yogurt temp

Ryan - Remember yogurt is an ANCIENT food, used throughout the ages by folk who had no thermometers, electricity, or glass jars. Try your machine - they probably would not make something that runs too hot.

Bart Hansen

Re: yogurt makers


I'm still using the Salton yogurt maker I got at a local Home Express store on clearance for $10. I haven't tested the temperature, but I trust it meets the criteria for gently fostering the growth of the bacteria. I'm very happy with the resulting yogurt, and I haven't had any adverse reactions after several weeks of use. Since it only makes a quart, I just bought another one (they're now marked down to $8 - apparently they have several in stock, and no one else wants them). I doubt that Home Express offers mail order shipping, but if you want to try, they're in the phone book - Dublin, CA, area code 510.


Re: yogurt makers

I noticed this with my yogurt maker also. It's Salton brand, and when I tested the temperature by putting water in the little cups, I found that it got too high, according to Elaine's recommendation. I asked about this, and she seemed to think it was fine. My yogurt turns out fine, but if I leave it in too long, like over 24 hours, it curdles, I think from the too high heat. It kind of cooks I guess. So I would just keep using it if you can get good yogurt that you can tolerate. I posted earlier about how I couldn't tolerate the yogurt
when I used commercial yogurt as starter, but when I tried powdered starter, I could eat the yogurt no problem.

Re: Yogurt
Sat, 12 Apr 1997 6:25:16 GMT

>When making the yogurt I find that if I use larger containers I get
>proportionally more liquid forming mainly on top of the the yogurt than if I
>had used smaller containers. Am I right in thinking the liquid is whey (i.e.
>= lactose plus the bacteria) and therefore either the yogurt should be
>fermented for longer and/or the liquid should be thrown away? I always
>ferment for 48 hours minimum and currently experimenting with longer ferment
>times to see if less liquid is created.
>Michael Foster

Don't wory about the whey, if you are fermenting more than 24 hrs then it will be lactose free. The curds, are mainly protein and fat and the whey is mostly water and acid. In commercial yoghurt the whey also contains most of the lactose. Elaine said, when questioned about the liquid whey that you should drink it too.
The whey containing acid creates an environment that is dangerous for unfriendly bacteria and conducive tothe "acid loving" cultures.
You can get a firmer yoghurt by using a starter yoghurt that contains a blend of bacteria e.g. acidophilus, bifidus and L. Cassei
Also the temperature is critical for getting firm and lactose free yoghurt.
Use a fresh starter yoghurt old cultures will grow more slowly.

hope that helps

regards Michael

Re: Yogurt substitutes

> He asked me if he could substitute Buttermilk? He's in Sweden, and
>they have a wide variety of different milks.
>Dear K.D., >Frankly I know nothing about buttermilk. If it is a product to which
>nothing additional has been added, I would guess that it is as usable as
>half & half is in making yogurt. You might want to check with Elaine, her tel
>is (905) 349-3420.

To KD and others, As far as drinking store bought buttermilk instead of eating homemade yogurt, you would have to ensure that the product has no lactose, which can be difficult. You don't know how the company makes it and how long they ferment it. As the book says, it takes 24 hours of fermentation to get rid of virtually all the lactose, and most dairy producers do not bother fermenting their cultured dairy products that long, as it's not necessary to get a salable product. Since it is necessary for us on the SCD, we must make our own cultured products.

As for using store bought buttermilk instead of milk or cream to make yogurt, I have never tried it, but I don't think it will work. If anything, you would get sour cream, not yogurt at the end of it. I did some research about cultured dairy products and learned how to make my own sour cream.

Store bought buttermilk can be used as a STARTER to make homemade SOUR CREAM. You do it the same way as you make yogurt, using half and half or whipping cream. You must ensure the cream has no bad additives in in though. In my area I can not find any brand of whipping cream that does not have carageenen or other crap added. (Not only is it bad in general to have additives for yogurt/sour cream making purposes, but I have read several articles that said carageenen has been used as an agent to CAUSE Crohn's in lab rats! )
Anyway, you can make sour cream the same way as yogurt, but it needs to be fermented at a lower temperature. The way I figured out how to do it is to make a batch of yogurt and then put the batch of sour cream ON TOP of the yogurt containers, and wrap the whole machine with a thick bath towel. I have a Salton yogurt maker with those 7 little glass cups. I simply don't put the big plastic cover on top of the machine, and put the sour cream batch directly on top of the little jars (in a bowl or other glass/ceramic container). Covering it all with a towel acts like a "tea cozy", retaining the heat. This way the sour cream can ferment at the lower temperature required.

The only difference between yogurt and sour cream is the fat content (usually sour cream is made with full fat heavy cream, and yogurt is lighter); and the SPECIES of bacteria used as a "culture" are different. You can buy powdered starter for sour cream, or use buttermilk or commercial sour cream. I found it impossible to find a store bought brand of sour cream that has no bad additives though, so I use buttermilk whose ingredients are: milk, bacterial culture, salt.

I don't think many people are aware that we are allowed to have sour cream on the SCD "if we can find one with minimal lactose", as it says in the book. Since this product did not exist in my area, I researched on the net how to make it. That's when I found out how to make DCCC also, but I'm not that ambitious, since I can buy a perfectly good DCCC here at the stores. Personally, I LOVE sour cream, and being raised on a lot of Hungarian cuisine which has a lot of sour cream in many of the dishes, I can find lots of uses for it.

Try it, it really can add tremendous variety to your meals and it's something different! If anyone needs any more tips on making it, or recipes using it, just ask me.

K.D., Unfortunately, I don't think your son will be able to get away with NOT making homemade yogurt or sour cream for this diet, because as I mentioned above, commercial producers don't have a need to ferment their products that long and we need products with very low levels of lactose. You could do the diet omitting the yogurt, but I think it is quite a benefitial part of the whole plan.

Sorry this post is so long, but sometimes there is a lot to say! Anna

Yogurt machine is better
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:32:59 GMT

> I am getting runy yoghurt. The top 1/2 inch is firm like commercial
>yoghurt but the rest is more like heavy wiping cream. I am using
>plain whole mike to start with. I have done this both with 16oz
>jars and 8oz jars. I have tried several different brands of
>commercial yoghurt as starters. The yoghurt is not firm like
>the commercial yoghurt that I use as a starter. It does smell and taste
>like yoghurt. What am I doing wrong? It is being make in my
>oven with a 60watt light bulb. Should you leave the lids on the
>jars when it is in the oven? Also I leave it in the oven for at least
>30 hours before removing it.
>John Dey
>Las Vegas Nevada

I think you better go out and buy a real yogurt maker. They are fairly
inexpensive (usually $30 or less) and it is well worth it for this diet. We
NEED the yogurt for the diet. It is like MEDICINE practically. The oven
method is not very reliable. I tried testing the oven method too before I
bought my maker, but I didn't make yogurt, I just left a jar of water in there
and I tested the temperature every couple hours. I found it impossible to get
a consistent temperature in there. It is no good if the temperature
fluctuates, and it sounds like this is what's happening with yours. If you get
a maker, your yogurt and sour cream will turn out beautiful and firm every
time. It's 10 times better than any store bought yogurt or sour cream anyway.
Hope this helps.

Re: Yogurt machine is better

Hi Julie,

We found our Yogurt Maker in a Health Food Store. The brand is Yogourmet
II Electric Yogurt Maker. It makes great yogurt always very thick and
creamy much nicer than any commercial yogurt I ever tried. The company you
could contact to find out where to purchase one in your area is Lyo-San Inc.
C.P. 598, Lachute, QC. Canada, J8H 4G4
The phone # is 1-514-562-8525.
We have tried other yogurt makers but never got the excellent quality yogurt
we get with the Yogourment II. Actually this brand was recommonded to us by
Lucy Rosset (Ist Testimonial on the back cover of Breaking the Vicious
Cycle. Hope this info helps.

Take Care,

Barb Partridge

Mail order yogurt maker
Wed, 30 Apr 1997 2:25:53 GMT

When Jon started the diet last July, I bought a yogurt maker. It's been
worth it. Makes two quarts of beautiful, thick yogurt at a time with very
little hassle. Here's the address I found in the instruction book:
Yogourmet II
Rolmex Electro Inc.
2334, Marie-Victorin
Varennes, Quebec, Canada Jol 2PO

We keep the yogurt in the yogurt maker for at least 24 hours. Also we use
half and half, plus one paket of unflavored gelatin.

Best wishes,

How to get a Yogurt Maker
Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:35:38 GMT

Good News!
To all those who asked where they could get a yogurt maker, I found the Salton
Maxim Company homepage at http://www.salton-maxim.com/index.html

They have a lot of small appliances and you can order them via the internet,
phone, or fax. It seems quite reasonably priced at $19.99. Visit the"Fun
Food" section of their site to see the yogurt maker at:

and http://www.qvc.com/scripts/detail.dll?Product&K33326

I also phoned and asked what stores you could find their products in. They
said they supply to the following stores but you should call the stores near
you to find out if they stock the yogurt makers:
Bed Bath & Beyond
Montgomery Wards
Linens & Things
Service Merchandise
Wal Mark
K Mart

The Salton company in Canada is totally different from the U.S. one. I called
them and they said they do not sell to consumers directly in any way. They
only supply to stores like The Bay and London Drugs. If you are in Canada, I
would call these stores and find out where you can get a maker.

Good Luck on finding one and Happy Yogurt Making!

Best wishes,

Re: How to get a Yogurt Maker
Thu, 1 May 1997 3:43:46 GMT

Hello everyone ;
I also found the same Salton Maxim Yogurt Maker at http://www.qvc.com.
Select search and on the search page search for Item # K33326 and it will
bring up the Maker at a price of $14.86 Plus Shipping. You can select the
shipping that you prefer depending on how fast you want it delivered. It is
the same model that the Salton-Maxim site has for 19.95.


Re: Yogurt
Thu, 8 May 1997 16:58:09 GMT

> Can you freeze yogurt and thaw it out as needed?
> Jim

I tried freezing my very first batch of yoghurt and it was a
disaster. It did not defrost into an edible consistency.

John/Berkeley, CA

Re: Yogurt flavorings
Thu, 8 May 1997 17:35:58 GMT

Do you add honey or dextrose to your yogurt before eating it? I do. I find
you have to add some sweetener to counteract the tartness. I believe the
tartness is caused by the long fermentation period that we do. The store
bought stuff is only fermented for two or three hours and still has a lot of
natural lactose (sugar) in it from the milk or cream. That's why it's not as
sour as our wonderful homemade kind. I think it's good for us though, so we
should try to stomach it. I never really noticed that they get more and more
tart as time goes on. I thought they were just really tart to begin with. I
don't think you can freeze them and then unthaw them. If you freeze them, you
could use it to make frozen yogurt and purree it in a food processor I guess.

I just eat it fresh and I add vanilla extract and honey or dextrose, or
applesauce, honey, and cinnamon, or just cinnamon and dextrose, or homemade
blueberry sauce made with honey. You can make nice variations. Use your
imagination. Look at all the flavours they have in the store bought yogurts.
Try to copy them. Apple cinnamon is quite tasty.
Hope this helps!

Thu, 8 May 1997 18:01:34 GMT

Anna: I don't like the taste of yogurt w/honey. But I like eating the
yogurt the first couple of days after I make it. It is not tart at all!
But after about 4-5 days, it gets really tart/sour. I guess I will stop
making big batches of yogurt and start eating it faster. It was just so
much trouble to make, I started making big batches thinking it would last
me a couple weeks.

I add fruit to sweeten the yogurt for a treat. But I also mix up several
spices until I get a type of ranch dressing for my salads. I usually add
salt, pepper, garlic & onion powder, a pinch of this, a dash of that...
pour it over avocado & leaf lettuce, or use it as a veggie dip. I'm
starting to get hungry... <g>

Jim Prousalis: 3-4 days is all yogurt will keep? Crap! I hate making the
stuff every 3-4 days. Is the lactobacillus in the yogurt the stuff that
helps to heal our crohn's? So if the yogurt is starting to taste tart,
then its probably not doing me any good, right? Bummer!


Re: Yogurt
Fri, 9 May 1997 17:10:04 GMT

You guys, I don't know where you get these ideas! The yogurt is fine. It will
last 2 weeks at LEAST in the fridge. Don't worry. And it's perfectly good for
you and your disease whether it's sour/tart or not. Chill out!

SCD: Yogurt
Fri, 9 May 1997 17:58:15 GMT

Yogurt will last for more than two weeks. To repeat, this old and
vital food is very forgiving. The other day I forgot and left a batch
in my old Salton 5-banger for 48 hours instead of 24 and there was no
noticeable effect. It was delicious! And now that I am an old hand
(over 6 months!) I don't bother with sterilization in the preparation.
I wash and reuse the same old plastic yogurt cups and caps that came
originally from the super market. I bring a mixture of half & half
and whole milk to a boil, cool it in the sink in cold water and mix
with a couple of heaping tablespoons of regular plain yogurt, and pour
it in the 8 oz cups (I have set aside the original glass cups as being
too small).

Bart Hansen

Fri, 9 May 1997 17:24:37 GMT

>Hi Anna and everyone--
>I'm curious about the dextrose you use. Where do you buy it? Is it
>granulated like sugar?

It is the consistency of powdered confectioners sugar and I buy it at a store
called Galloway's. It's a chain of stores around here that carry bulk spices,
dried fruits, candies, health foods, and imported foods. It's in Vancouver,
Canada. I don't know if they exist elsewhere. It is not as sweet as sugar, so
you have to use more, but it causes me no problems that I have noticed, as well
as my girlfriend who's had CD for 8 years. It is kind of nice to use it
sometimes, although I could easily live without it.

Oh, also, I once found some in an East Indian grocery store (came in a
cardboard box, like a juice box and is meant for "convelescing people"), but
the quality was gross. I won't buy it there ever again because I found this
pure source at Galloway's. It comes in clear plastic small sacs and is quite
cheap at $1.19 (Canadian) for 400grams (1/2 lb).

From: RStockb558@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 1997 2:10 PM
To: stellar1@pacbell.net
Cc: scd@filmgraphics.com
Subject: Fwd: Yogurt

Did you use the Salton directions or did you follow Ellen's directions from
the book? Salton says 6 hours but Ellen says at least 24 hours so that if
gets rid of that bad stuff that affects scd patients. My daughter got hers
and she has had no problem from it. I dont know if she has ever stuck a
thermometer in it to check the temp but she has made several batches using
yogurt starter that she got from the health food store.


Re: Temperature control for yoghurt making devises
Mon, 12 May 1997 22:42:54 GMT

Forwarded message:
From: stellar1@pacbell.net (stellar1@pacbell.net)
Reply-to: stellar1@pacbell.net
To: scd@filmgraphics.com (SCD)
Date: 97-05-12 15:01:22 EDT

Well, I got my new Salton yogurt maker the other day. Just made a batch
and found that the temp. went up to 115-117 degrees F. I was afraid it
would be too high but I tasted a few spoonfulls -- I so want to be able
to eat yogurt. I started to have a reaction, bloating, white coated
tongue. I can eat cheese, so I know it's not dairy in general. I'm
pretty disappointed so far. Does anyone know how to lower the
temperature slightly on one of these things -- maybe leaving the top off
would do it? Otherwise I think I will return it.

Davis, CA

Hi Denise and all on the list.

Re: Temperature contol for yoghurt making devices.

These are my opinions, while not written in stone ,they do come from the School Of Hard Knox. and the need to make good yoghurt.

A short back ground reference.

I have U.C. and have enjoyed Elaine's Diet for four years and two months.
First remission lasted over two years. The one and only flare I have experienced since beginning the diet, I believe resulted while trying to come off the diet. I ate refined sugars and starches, for a period of approx.six to eight months. The well known symptoms slowly but surely returned. With much pain, blood and HOT FOOTING it to the nearest restroom, it wasnt a hard decicion to realize I needed to go back to the diet. I am now into the tenth month of this remission. No meds. of any nature for nine months. Generally in good spirits, sometimes I have a good energy reserve, sometimes I dont, but I am no longer a young man either. In simple terms of my health, I look better than some I know at my age. Thoughout the entire diet of over four years I have always made my own yoghurt. I believe it to be an essential ingredient of the diet.

With out going into how I choose to make my own yoghurt, I will address only the Control of the Heat of an electrical device used for the purpose of make yoghurt.

1. A good thermometer is of the utmost importance to knowing the temperature within the yoghurt, and shouldnt be attempted without it.

2. Regardless of the construction or present control of the existing unit you may use, if there is ANY doubt about temperature control, I have found the following to be exellent.
By purchasing a plug into the wall electrical light dimmer switch, plug it into an electrical outlet.
(The same type of thing used to dimm a regular house light) Then plug your yoghurt making devise into the outlet of the dimmer switch. This will affort infinite control of the electrical current to your yoghurt making device. Allowing you to raise or lower the temperature by as little as 1 or 2 degrees at a time. The only change in temperature you will see, once you learn where to set the control, is a very slow change should there be a tramatic room temperature change. (Ambient temperature of the room.)

Although I will admit it is not thermostatically contolled, I have presently used this system for four years and find it exellent.
Hope this will be of some benifet to those on the list making yoghurt.
I will answer your questions should there be any.

Good Health


Re: Yoghurt
Tue, 13 May 1997 0:47:54 GMT

I noticed this about my yogurt maker in the beginning too. I don't think the
higher temperature is a problem. If the yogurt isn't agreeing with you, it may
be the starter. Are you using commercial yogurt as a starter or powdered
yogurt starter? I found that I had major problems with the yogurt until I
switched to powdered starter, YOGORMET brand, which I buy at the health food

Don't give up yet. Also, I think that it may depend on what stage your
inflamation is at right now. You should try waiting a while and then try the
yogurt again. Make sure you chill it well before eating it. Try using half
and half cream instead of milk also. Hope these ideas help. Good luck!

Re: Temperature control for yoghurt making devises
Tue, 13 May 1997 5:56:14 GMT


Both logic and what Elaine says indicate to me that the temperature of a
yoghurt maker is crucial. Will's solution sounds great. However, so that
we all can learn I hope you will also call the manufacturer and find out
what the temperature is supposed to be, and assuming that's less than
your's is ask them to explain how you could have gotten such a hot one.

Tom Robinson
San Jose, CA

Yogurt Temperature
Tue, 13 May 1997 18:10:07 GMT

Hi Ya'll; Let me ad more on the temperature control of yogurt. The first
thing you need to do before you rely on a thermometer is to "calibrate" it.
I assume that most are using the dial therm that you see carried in the
pockets of most refrigeration/air conditioning technitions. What most people
do not realize is that if that theermometer is forced into a piece of meat in
a twisting motion 9 times out of ten the calibration has been comprimised.
To Calibrate take a glass or cup and pack it with crushed ice, then fill
with cold water. Insert the therm probe into the ice water and allow to
stabilize. When stabilized it should read 32degrees farenheight or 0 degrees
Celsius. If does not then it needs to calibrated. To calibrate, while still
in the ice water hold the nut at the bottom side of the dial assy and grab
the outer edge of the dial and turn as needed to set the pointer on 32/0 as
the case may be. The therm is now calibrated. If you have a therm that
does not have a range that goes down to the freezing point then do it in a
pot of boiling water. Water boils at 212/100 F/C (at sea level). After you
have assured that the therm is calibrated you can rely on it as long as you
do not force it into somethig like meat in a twisting motion or DROP it. If
you have a therm that you can not calibrate then you will have to note the
difference and add or subtract from any reading that you take.
Bob (Beautiful Miss Gulf Coast)

Re: Yogurt Temperature and again
Fri, 16 May 1997 7:01:54 GMT

Exellent advice re: be sure your thermometer is accurate.

I place my thermometer under my tongue if I feel it should be checked.
It always comes out reading 98 decimal something, on a normal day .
This allows the test to take place very near the temperature area it will be used in the 105-108 deegrees f.


Yogurt Starter and Whey
Tue, 13 May 1997 22:48:08 GMT

Hi All:

I have a question about yogurt starter which I hope someone in the group can
answer, but first, I guess I should introduce myself.

I've had UC for 7 years and been on and off Dipentum, Asacol and Prednisone
with few "remissions." Two months ago I was back on Prednisone, and
seriously considering having my colon removed, when I found this group on the
net. I've been on the diet for 6 weeks and so far I think that it's nothing
short of miraculous. I'm off the Prednisone and have not felt better in as
long as I can remember (I know it's early, but I'm keeping my fingers

Anyway, I've been following the diet "fanatically" and am very anxious about
accidentally cheating. I had been unable to find powdered commercial yogurt
starter, so I've been making yogurt using commercial yogurt as a starter
(which only contains whole milk and acidophilus). The yogurt has been very
good but it's been somewhat inconvenient to keep going to the health food
store to get fresh yogurt. The other day I finally found powdered starter
("Natren" brand) which contains whey. Otherwise, it's all natural (milk
solids and bacteria). Is it okay to use this starter? Will the lactose in
the whey be eliminated during the 24 hour fermenting period? Any advice
would be appreciated.



Re: Yogurt Starter and Whey
Tue, 13 May 1997 23:26:26 GMT

You can get powdered yogurt starter from Walnut Acres catalog
tel:1-800-433 3998. I just purchased a packet, under $2.00.


Re: Yogurt Starter and Whey
Tue, 13 May 1997 23:31:46 GMT

Dear Laurie,
I'm not sure about the whey powder, but whey is actually the sour or tart
tasting liquid that is produced when the yogurt is made. I guess they may add
starch to whey powder but I'm not certain. If the yogurt has been agreeing
with you then I would not worry. Regarding the commercial yogurt, if you buy a
big container at the store, it should last about 3 weeks usually, and this
would make a lot of yogurt since you only need a few tablespoons for each
batch. I personally found the powdered starter to be more agreeable, but mine
(YOGORMET brand) has no whey added. It does have lactose, but it's ok because
that gets destroyed by the bacteria in the 24 hour fermentation.

Congratulations on finding this diet, getting off Pred, and feeling better! I
had a similar experience.
I'm sure you will get more replies to this question, but if no-one knows for
sure then you should phone Elaine to ease your worries.

FW: Yogurt Starter and Whey
Wed, 14 May 1997 21:00:32 GMT


Good to hear you are finding some benefit from the SCD , hope you do well with it .It has made my life so much easier.
I find the dry yoghurt starter makes a much better product,as well I would certainly be at the least sceptical of what other materials may or may not be included in the commercial ready made varieties.
I have not used the Naturen Brand you mentioned, simply because I have never seen it in Alberta. I use a brand of dry culture made in Montreal,( thats not too far from you.) Ask the Health food store if they might bring some in for you to try. It is called "rosell" no capitals.I am very satisfied with it. Also tried a "Yogurtnet" starter, I didnt care for the taste of that.
As I understand in your post you have come directly off the Predisone , and didnot come off of it gradually. Seems to me from the post I have read on this list that is not such a good idea. Maybe some one on the list here can advice you on that matter, I have never used that drug, so and have no personal experiece with it. But it may be worth checking. Post a note to the group and see what responce you get.

Best of luck


Re: Yogurt
Wed, 14 May 1997 23:56:32 GMT

>I unfortunately have yet another question for you yogurt making folks
>out there. I bought a brand of powdered yogurt starter at the health
>food store yesterday. Silly me, since it seemed to be a brand someone
>had mentioned, I didn't read the ingredient list. Learned my lesson!
>The darn thing has sucrose listed as an ingredient. It is Yogourmet
>brand from Canada. This is the complete list of ingredients: "powdered
>skim milk, sucrose, ascorbic acid, lactic bacteria." I am about to head
>back to the store to see if I can return it, but I am curious if anyone
>knows, would this amount of sucrose (must be small) be consumed by the
>bacteria that consume the lactose? It seems like that might be true,
>but I don't want to take any chances unless someone has had good
>experience with this. Also, has anyone ever tried the experiment of
>adding extra acidopholus or bulgaricus powder to their yogurt?
>Davis, CA

It's ok. That brand is perfectly good. I use it all the time. Also that
rosell one is good. The sucrose is eaten by the bacteria in the 24 hour
period. You can tell by how tart our yogurt is that there is no sugar left in
it. No worries.
Anna in Canada

yogurt starters and tempuratures
Thu, 15 May 1997 16:29:22 GMT

>Are you sure that sucrose in the yogurt starter is actually used up by the
>bacteria? If this was the case it would seem strange that Elaine states so
>clearly in her book that if we use commercial yogurt as a starter we should
>unsweetened yogurt.
>Take care,
>Tina (Ontario, Canada)

I'm sure it's fine. The amount of sucrose in the powdered starter is miniscule
compared to the tons they put in commercial sweetened yogurt, and plus,
commercial sweetened yogurt usually has all kinds of other crap and flavorings
included as well. That's why Elaine says not to use commercial sweetened
yogurt. All the crap they add probably affects the properties of the live
bacteria. Don't worry. Just use the starter, try the yogurt, and relax. If
it doesn't agree with you, then you'll have something to worry about.

To Denise and others concerned about the temperature of the yogurt makers:
My friend Cristina who has been on this diet since the book Food and the Gut
Reaction came out, has talked to Elaine several times over the years and Elaine
told her that any electric yogurt maker is fine. The temperature she wrote in
the book is basically an ESTIMATE. As you can see from some other things in
the book, she is not always EXACT about things. Look at the carrot cake recipe
and some of the other recipes. If you follow it to the letter, you get a big
mushy mess, not a cake! It's a boo boo in the book, and there ARE several. I
can understand your worries about not getting the yogurt too hot because it
says that in the book, but Elaine even said that the Yogurt Makers know what
their doing. They are not designed to go above the desireable yogurt making
tempurature range. A few degrees isn't going to make a difference. You know,
in the old days, they didn't have electricity and appliances like us, and they
still managed to make good yogurt. If you have an electric maker, just use it
and leave it on for 24 hours. That's all you need to worry about. The 24
hours takes care of everything. The dimmer thing sounds like a good idea, but
it's simply unecessary for electric yogurt makers. You cannot use thermous
type yogurt makers though, as it says in the book. If your yogurt comes out
firm and nice, then you suceeded. If it's still runny, then there is a
problem. You should be able to turn the jar of yogurt upside down (those
little ones anyway) and it should not come out. It is completely coagulated
and FIRM. If this is not the case, then you may have a problem with your
appliance, or there may be an error in the preparation of the milk/cream. I
highly recommend using half and half. Don't worry about the high fat content,
it's good for you. Even if you need to lose weight, it will still happen.
It's way better tasting.

I know we are supposed to be fanatical about this diet, but let's just be
reasonable. The electric Salton makers are perfectly fine. It's actually the
best way to do it. Elaine said so herself! I'm just trying to calm all you
people down who are worrying themselves sick over the temperature thing, when
they have an electric yogurt maker. If you are using a snake rock or similar
such contraption, then maybe you need a dimmer.

Re: Yogurt
Fri, 16 May 1997 2:00:57 GMT

Your idea about adding extra acidophilus or bulgaricus to the yogurt
intrigued me so I spoke to a biochemist friend of mine about it.
Unfortunately, according to him, "this experiment would be self-defeating
since increasing the amount of bacteria without proportionately increasing
the amount of milk (the food for the bacteria) would alter the flavor and
decrease the active life of the yogurt. In other words, the bacteria would
run out of food faster and therefore die quicker." I'm not sure he's right,
but it seems to make sense, so I thought I'd share his opinion.


Yogurt answers
Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:40:17 GMT

>Does anyone know why it is "ok" to consume the milk that the allowable
>contain (swiss & cheddar) but not consume milk in any other form?

The reason is that milk contains much lactose which is a form of sugar we can't
digest (disacharide) with more than one molecule. The allowable cheeses are
fermented milk products. The process used in making the cheeses uses microbial
enzymes and a long fermentation period which eliminates the majority of the
lactose, making it tolerable to us. The same principle goes for the homemade
yogurt. Store bought yogurts (all brands) are not allowable on the SCD because
they only ferment them for about 4 hours, leaving much lactose remaining in the
final product. We ferment our homemade yogurt for 24 full hours, in order to
eliminate all the lactose. You see, the longer these cultured dairy products
are fermented, the less lactose remains because the bacteria or enzymes that
are introduced into the recipe (ie. starter), are actually live organisms which
in effect eat up the sugar (lactose) in the milk, and produce lactic acid
(making it sour). I hope this answers your question. (Correct me if I'm wrong
on any of these details - other list members).

> Also, is the Tomatoe juice made by Campbell's an allowable tomatoe juice.

I don't know about Cambell's, maybe someone else can answer this, but as a last
resort, you could write to the company and explain your situation.

>finally, does anyone know a brand name for the unflavored/unswseetened
>yoghurt that's permitted on the diet?

There is none because no company is going to spend all that time, fermenting it
extra long because most people don't know the difference and they don't need it
fermented that long. Unfortunately, we have to make our own. There are some
inexpensive yogurt machines out there (under 30 dollars), and after a while it
becomes kind of fun and rewarding to make your own. It actually takes less
time than you may think.
Good luck,

Lactose Intolerance: Not an Allergy
Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:44:21 GMT

Hi All,
I found this article at Medscape somewhat interesting...
Link to the article may be found at:

To be more exact, the article is placed at
but to see it (read it), you have to sign up as a member (free of charge).

For copyright reasons I couldn't just copy it and mail it to you.


Lactose Intolerance: Not an Allergy
Lactose intolerance is not a food allergy but an inability to digest a sugar found in dairy products.
[U.S. Pharmacist 22(5):21-22, 26-27, 1997]

Author: W. Steven Pray, Ph.D., R.Ph., Professor, Pharmaceutics, School of Pharmacy, Southwestern Oklahoma State University, Weatherford, OK

Lactose intolerance is one of a number of food intolerances. The term "food intolerance" denotes a nonimmunologically based inability to properly metabolize certain food groups.

The lay public often confuses lactose intolerance with an allergy to milk. Milk allergy is an immunologic problem that is different from lactose intolerance in its causes and treatments.

It is estimated that 25% of American adults and 75% of adults worldwide have lactose intolerance; as many as 7.5 million Americans suffer from severe lactose intolerance. It is present in 15% of white adults, 45% of Eskimos, 81% of black adults, and 100% of Asian adults.

Symptoms of cow's milk protein allergy include vomiting (which is uncommon in lactose intolerance), diarrhea (perhaps bloody stools), angio-edema, urticaria, rhinitis, nasal congestion and wheezing.

Medscape is produced by Medscape, Inc.
All material on this server Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 by the publishers involved.

Re: Yogurt Starter
Fri, 4 Jul 1997 5:09:37 GMT

Hi Bill

The commercial yogurt is a poor starter, likely all the culture is dead
long before it was ever placed on the store shelf.

You didnt mention where on the continent you reside Bill , so I am not sure
you if you can obtain the starter I use called "rosell" (all small case )
Made in Montreal. I believe it to have a decidedly better taste than the
Yogormet starter. But then each to his own, after all taste is all in our
The rosell is readly available in health food stores or I can give you the
address of the manufacture if you desire . I have used it for four years
and enjoy .


Yogourmet Freeze-Dried Yoghurt Starter
Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:43:35 GMT

Since so many people keep asking "where can I get yoghurt starter???", when
making a batch of y. yesterday, I saved the envelope so I could pass on the
mailing address of the manufacturer of the brand I use ... (but of course,
it, or similar starters, are probably available in ANY health food store
... I don't know why so many people have trouble finding any):

Lyo-San Inc.
(makers of Yogourmet yoghurt starter)
500 Aeroparc
Box 598
Lachute, Quebec J8H 4G4

(No phone number given; it does say "if refrigerated, best for 1 year past
date embossed on the pouch" so it keeps well).

Best wishes,


White Rock, British Columbia, Canada

Re: yogurt
Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:36:07 GMT

About the commercial yogurt, I don't know WHY, but I don't think it would work
to try fermenting store bought yogurt as is. I thought that as soon as you
chill the yogurt, it stops the fermentation process. But I still don't know
why it works as starter. What about other fermented products? Would the same
principal work? I mean, with cheeses, the longer it's left, the stronger it
gets (eg. mild, medium, or old cheddar), but if you leave it out on the
counter, it will spoil and go moldy, it won't improve and get older and
stronger. What about wine? Why doesn't it turn to vinegar if you leave it
out, or does it?

So, it seems that it's some sort of chemical reaction process that must start
with boiled milk, in order to eliminate all but the right kind of bacteria.
Why doesn't someone try it, just for the heck of it, and let us know what
happens. Personally, I have my doubts about any commercial yogurt because I
could never tolerate the homemade yogurt that I made using commercial yogurt as
a starter, but then when I bought powedered starter, I had no problem. This
makes me wonder if there are not some other additives in the commercial yogurt
which are not listed, or if they are using some sort of different culture.
Something is different from the powdered, that's for sure, we just don't know
what it is.

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:16:55 -0400
From: Matthew Cirillo <mcirill@EMORY.EDU>

Re: Question about yogurt

I had a flare (I believe) using half and half with the amount of starter prescribed for yoghurt made with regular milk. It wasn't tart at all, and a bit liquidy. If your yoghurt comes out this way, feed it to your kids or dog, but don' eat it yourself! Add more starter, and it works out great (I double it, like 3-4 heaping table spoons to one quart of half & half.
Matt in Atlanta

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:00:00 PST

Subject: mail order yogurt starter/cheese making supplies

Hi Mik,
You asked about powdered yogurt culture. Well, I've never ordered it myself, since I can easily buy starter in the shops here, but I found this site where you can order starter by mail. The first address is the main page, and the second one is the yogurt making supplies link. Hope this is of some help.

By the way, for others who can't find dry curd cottage cheese or one of the substitutions mentioned in the book, if you are desparate to try it, and adventurous enough to attempt making it yourself, I'm sure you could acquire the supplies necessary through the same site.

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:13:25 -0400
From: Ellen Adams <EllenAdams@AOL.COM>
Subject: Yogurt, Sour Cream & Buttermilk Starter

Hey Guys!

I have a new catalogue called "The Baker's Catalog" that actually has some
interesting items for those on SCD (despite it being put out by a flour
company!). They offer a yogurt maker and various starters. I don't think
the yogurt maker would work for the diet (it's non-electric) but the starters
sounded neat. They offer yogurt, sour cream, and buttermilk starter from
Rosell. Evidently these are designed for use in a yogurt maker. They also
offer a "Yogurt Cheese Maker" which is essentially a fine strainer that sits
in a plastic container. You can strain 3-4 cups of yogurt and store the
resulting yogurt cheese in the container. They also offer almond flour but
the prices on that seem really high.

For those who are interested, their phone number is 1-800-827-6836. They
have a web site at http://www.kingarthurflour.com. Here are the specifics on
each product discussed above.

4206 Yogurt Cheese Maker ("The Wave")   $19.95
4211 Yogurt Starter   $2.50
4209 Sour Cream/Buttermilk Starter   $3.00
3450 Filbert Flour (unskinned hazelnuts)   $4.25 for 8 oz
3496 Almond Flour (blanched almonds)   $5.25 for 8 oz

I know a lot of people get Rosell starter at health food stores, but I
thought this might be an interesting resource for those who might not have a
convenient source. Almond flour is much cheaper than this from Hughson's.


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:17:14 -0700
From: Dean Hardy <"painsolv" >
Subject: Re: Lactobacillus vs. Acidophilus ... what's what?

>My problem is that I am milk protein intolerant and I had hoped that
>eventually following this diet I would be able to start eating the
>yogurt or even cheese, but until now I am not able to. I have read many
>comments of Acidophilus or labtobacillus. Can someome explain the
>difference and whether or not I should be taking it. I believe it would
>help the flora of the intestine. Has anyone had this experience?
Dear Lori:

Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, ed. 16, page 26 ...

    "Acidophilus milk: milk fermented
    by 'Lactobacillus acidophilus' cultures."

And to explain further: there are a number of lactobacilli, such as L. Bulgaricus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei, and L. Helveticus (the latter is named after "Helvetia", which is the native name for "Switzerland"; L. Helveticus is found in, you guessed it, SWISS cheese!). All these bacteria are fermenters of milk sugar; there are different strains of milk fermenters just as there are diff. strains of streptococcus & staphylococcus & every other darn germ / bacteria / "bug" under the sun ... people forget that "bugs" have "familes" and "clans" and "races" just like the biggest bug of all, people!

Does that answer your Q?


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:57:22 PDT
From: Kim Endres <kendres@RESDYN.COM>
Subject: Re: Lactobacillus

Lori -
I don't know anything about milk protein intolerance, but it would seem on the surface that it is a different thing from lactose intolerance. The yogurt recommended for the diet would take care of lactose intolerance, but not, I think, milk protein intolerance. Although sometimes once your gut is healed (from the SCD), you are able to tolerate proteins that previously would irritate.

At any rate, there are products available that provide a range of the good-guy bacteria in a non-milk base. Usually these are powders that must be refrigerated. They are common in healthfood stores. My doctor has recommended such a product in support of the effort to return my gut's bacterial balance to normal. Personally I use this in addition to yogurt.

So there are alternatives to yogurt. Just make sure that the product contains no starches or sugars.

Best of luck,


Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:48:30 PDT
From: Kurt Jensen <kurt_j@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Where to buy good bacteria?


To help my CD I want to try SCD without diary. This requires me to try
to get the "good bacteria" in other ways than the yoghurt. I got the
following recommendation from a German doctor for a therapy based on
massive amounts of "good bacteria":

Phase 1 (1 month):
Pro-Symbioflor: Start at 2x1 drop a day and increase gradually to
2x20 drops a day.
Lacto and Bifido (eg. SymbioLact Comp): 2 times a day
5E8 Lactobacillus-acidophilus and 5E8 Lactobacillus-casei and
5E8 Bifidobacterium bifidum soluted in a glass of water.

Phase 2 (5 months):
Pro-Symbioflor: 2x20 drops a day.
Symbioflor 1: 2x20 drops a day.
Lacto and Bifido (eg. SymbioLact Comp): 2 times a day
5E8 Lactobacillus-acidophilus and 5E8 Lactobacillus-casei and
5E8 Bifidobacterium bifidum soluted in a glass of water.

Phase 3 (6 months):
Symbioflor 1: 2x20 drops a day.
Symbioflor 2: Start at 2x1 drop a day and increase to
2x20 drops a day.
Lacto and Bifido (eg. SymbioLact Comp): 2 times a day
5E8 Lactobacillus-acidophilus and 5E8 Lactobacillus-casei and
5E8 Bifidobacterium bifidum soluted in a glass of water.

Now this looks fine, but where do I buy this stuff:

Symbioflor 1
Symbioflor 2
SymbioLact Comp

I am in Denmark, but I guess mail order from anywhere in Europe would be
economically okay. Maybe even from the states.

Thanks in advance,



Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:14:36 PST
From: Kurt Jensen <kurt_j@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Pro Symbioflor information


Some asked about what sort of bacteria Pro Symbioflor and SymbioLact consist of, so I will list it here:

SymbioLact Comp:
Lactobacillus acidophilus 5x10^8 bacteria
Lactobacillus casei 5x10^8 bacteria
Bifidobacterium bifidum 5x10^8 bacteria
Streptococcus lactis 5x10^8 bacteria
Daily dose 2x above.
Notice: No lactose.

Pro Symbioflor:
Eschericha coli
Enterococcus faecalis
Total per ml: 1,5-4,5x10^7
Daily dose: 4x above

Company Name:
SymbioPharm GmbH
D-35745 Herborn

Fax 02772/51268

I am not sure why these bacteria works so good, but they certainly do more for me than more than 1/2 year of 100% serios SCD did.

- Kurt

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:28:30 +0000
From: Keith Monroe <keith.monroe@MCMAIL.COM>
Subject: The Effect of Milk on IBD and Crohn's

(This may have some bearing on what you asked last week, Arlene.)

I repeat the salient points below for anyone unable to access




Why IBD sufferers should only consume UHT dairy products

The standard method of pasteurization which is required by the FDA and
other public health bodies around the world is the HTST ("High
Temperature Short Time") pasteurization method. The HTST pasteurization
method kills most bacteria, by heating milk to a temperature of 71.7
degrees centigrade for 15 seconds. However, research has shown that at
least three pathogenic (disease-causing) bacteria are capable of
surviving HTST pasteurization. These bacteria are Mycobacterium
paratuberculosis, Listeria monocytogenes and Yersinia enterocolitica.

Mycobacterium paratuberculosis causes a chronic intestinal disease in
many animal species. This disease, which is almost identical to Crohns
disease in humans, is called Johnes disease, and affects primates
(monkeys, apes, etc), farm animals (cows, sheep, horses, goats,
chickens, pigs, etc), domestic pets (dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea-pigs,
gerbils, etc) and wild animals (deer, wild rabbits, llamas, etc). There
is strong evidence that Mycobacterium paratuberculosis is responsible
for some cases of Crohns disease in humans. See the page "Does
Mycobacterium paratuberculosis cause Crohns disease?" for more

Yersinia enterocolitica can cause fever, abdominal pain and diarrhoea in
humans. Listeria monocytogenes causes a food poisoning disease in
humans, called listeriosis, which can be fatal in up to 30% of people
who are infected with it.

The same risk exists for dairy products made from milk that has only
been HTST pasteurized. Such products include cheese, cream, butter,
chocolate, yoghurt, etc.

If these pathogenic bacteria are known to be capable of surviving HTST
pasteurization, then there is a risk that other pathogenic bacteria are
able to survive it also. For sufferers of Inflammatory Bowel Disease
(both Crohns disease and Ulcerative Colitis) this is an unnecessary
risk. The intestines of IBD sufferers are inflamed, if their disease is
active, and it is almost certain that infection with potentially disease
causing bacteria will make the symptoms of IBD far worse. Thus,
sufferers of IBD should minimize their risk of infection with these
organisms. Also, for a proportion of sufferers of Crohns disease, there
is evidence that Mycobacterium paratuberculosis is involved in causing
their disease.

UHT pasteurization of milk

The UHT ("Ultra High Temperature") pasteurization process uses a much
higher temperature than HTST pasteurization. UHT milk is "superheated"
to a temperature of 130 degrees centigrade (water boils at 100 degrees
centigrade). It is important to note that UHT processing does not
involve treatment with radiation. See the reference "UHT processing of
milk" for a description of the UHT pasteurization process. The UHT
process is virtually guaranteed to destroy all bacteria, including
Mycobacterium paratuberculosis and Listeria monocytogenes. Thus, by
switching to UHT milk and derivative dairy products, sufferers of IBD
can reduce their risk of infection with pathogenic bacteria, thus
increasing the chances of their disease
remaining under control.

Where can I get UHT dairy products?

UHT milk, sometimes known as "Long Life" milk, is widely available in
Europe. Dairy products that require a long shelf life, such as the
little "jiggers" of milk/cream that McDonalds supply for coffee, are
usually UHT processed. Cartons of UHT milk for sale in stores will have
the phrases "UHT", "UHT Pasteurized", "Long Life", or "Longer Life"
prominently displayed on them. Cream that has been UHT pasteurized is
also widely available.

If your local store does not stock UHT milk or cream, call your local
dairy company/companies and ask them if they produce UHT products, and
if they do, to what stores do they supply them in your local area? If
they do not produce UHT products, ask them if they know of another dairy
company that does. See the page "UHT dairy products" for a list of UHT
products, organized by country, and companies that produce them, with
contact details.

I have not come across any brand of cheese that is made from UHT
pasteurized milk. If you wish to eat cheese, it should be heated to a
temperature high enough to kill any bacteria in it. The temperature of
boiling water, 100 degrees C (212 degrees F), should be sufficient to
destroy any bacteria in cheese. Thus, grilling cheese under direct heat
for a few minutes(so that it "bubbles"), or cooking it in oven-baked
meals, such as oven-baked lasagne, should effectively "home-pasteurize"
the cheese.

Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:29:34 EST
From: Denali321 <Denali321@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The Effect of Milk on IBD and Crohn's & UHT milk

Great Question regarding the residual Mycobacterium Paratuberculosis (a bacteria which casues a condition identical to CD in many mammels) present in yogurt after heating (boiling) and fermentation. I too have been very curious to find this out.

According to research studies, (http://iol.ie/~alank/CROHNS/uhtmilk.htmParaTB pages:- Why IBD sufferers should only ...). Only after UHT (Ultra-High Temperature) pastuerized milk is there no evidence of live M. Paratuberculosis present. Normal Dairy or HTST pasturized dairy has between a 5% and 25% incident rate of M. Paratuberculosis presence.

The tempurature necessary to eradicate M. Paratuberculosis has been estimated to be 130 degrees C (266 degrees F). This is the temperature of UHT pasturization. We do not come close to this temperature in our heating prior to fermentation for our yogurt. So in addition to M. Paratuberculosis, other residual pathogens may survive. Perhaps using UHT milk to make our yogurt is the way to go. Has anyone tried this?



Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:16:29 +0100
From: mik@inform-bbs.dk (mik aidt)
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Milk against cancer
Message-ID: <2621046749.28264@inform-bbs.dk>

I found this short note in a Danish magazine. Nice thought if it turns out to be
true, considering the amount of milk (yoghurt) we SCDers consume....

"Don't hold back with the milk
Scientists in San Diego have found out that milk seems to prevent cancer in the
Their research shows that among those men who drank two glasses of milk every
day, and who had done this for a longer period of years, less than a third were
having tendencies to develop cancer in colon, in comparison to those men who
had never drunk any milk."

Subject: Yogurt and Ice Cream Makers
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:52:49 -0800 (PST)
From: R Pavley <rpavley@earthlink.net>

I've read a lot of messages on this list asking where to find the yogurt
makers and ice cream makers. Found several on-line sources as follows:

Salton Yogurt Maker - www.reach4life.com

Yogourmet Yogurt Maker - www.reach4life.com

Ice Cream Maker, the kind where you freeze the tub, hand crank, is at

DeLonghi Ice Cream Maker, the kind where you freeze the tub, motor driven,
is at cybershop.com/store

Also, located the motor driven Cuisenart and Krupps at Macy's and they are
on sale through Christmas.

I haven't tried any of these, but plan to soon. I am getting organized to
start the diet but am not on it yet.


Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:06:35 -0700
From: "William Laing" <wlaing@telusplanet.net>
To: <SCD-list@longisland.com>
Subject: Re: Yogurt crock pot too hot

----Original Message----- >From: Prateeksha Bogardus +ADw-prateeksha+AEA-infoasis.com+AD4- >To: SCD-list+AEA-longisland.com +ADw-SCD-list+AEA-longisland.com+AD4- >Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 10:39 AM >Subject: Re: Yogurt > >I tried the crock-pot on low and it got too hot to make the yogurt and it
>was a total failure. Very few electrical appliances will go down to 100-110
>degrees F. snip

Season Greeting to ALL on the List

Some time ago I had explained on this list how to control the heat when using a crock-pot or any other electrical heating devices when making yogurt.

I have used this method for over four years now and it will control your crock pot to with in one or two degrees, depending on how carefully you set it.

Buy one regular type dimmer switch that you can plug into a 110-120 volt wall receptacle, from most any hardware dept, in any of the large chain stores. This small unit is normally used to plug a table lamp into and allows one to (adjust) or dim the light. Instead of plugging you light into the dimmer switch you plug your crock pot into it, allowing you to control the heat to exactaly where you want it, giving you exellent yoghurt each time.
After setting it up for the first time using water only , you will get an indication of where to set the adjustment knob on the dimmer switch ,mark the point with small marking pen. It might take acouple of tries to get it perfect so stick with just water, untill you are happy with the temperature. If you have any question just give me a shout. This is a very simple and effective manner to control temperature of most any small heating or lighting device.

A simple method to check the accuracy of your thermometer is to take your own body temperature (under the tongue of course), on a normal day.

>The crock-pot on low an effective way to make it? It
>seems somewhat tricky. Val


Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:05:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: macneil <macneilc@cbnet.ns.ca>
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: A Great yogurt maker

I ordered and received 2 months ago the Yogourmet Multi yogurt maker
and have been very pleased with it. I had been using the 7 glass container
Salton yogurt maker for my daughter's yogurt and was making it every other
day. This new device makes 2 liters.

If you can't locate it in your area, the toll free # is 1-800-363-3697 ask
for Guylaine as she speaks English and will take your order (the company
Lyo-San Inc. is in Quebec, Canada -deal internationally and are very good to
deal with- I had the maker in a few days)

The Canadian cost was $69.95 GST including postage.

It includes a thermometer, a cottonbag to make cheese and instructions. What
I like is the inner container is one large container-very compact as the
glass jars in my previous maker were chipping or breaking.


Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 18:57:58 -0400
From: Midas Gold <midasgold@pipeline.com>
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Lactobacillus Bar Discussion Lounge

Hey, everybody - get a load of this web-based discussion page devoted
to yogurt-making!



Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:19:54 -0500
From: mwgdsg@juno.com
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Re: Yogurt Question?


Someone posted this web site a while back: http://countrylife.net/yogurt//messages.html#start

It had some very helpful information & links.

I've had my yoghurt heated as high as 120 with no problems. Since I've been using my variable temp pot, It's no so exact as using my yogert maker. I checked it one morning it seemed hot. After checking, it was 124ish. I was worried, but it was a wonderful batch. I have a little yogurt spoon with a thermometer in it. It is marked to have the temp. between 115 & 120 F.

Diane Florida

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:21:54 -0400
From: Midas Gold <midasgold@pipeline.com>
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Re: Yogurt Makers

hFoster@DTIC.MIL wrote:

> What is the phone no. for Salton yoghurt makers?

Harriet, I don't have the phone number handy, but here's the website
and also the e-mail address I used to successfully correspond with



Really, I must go now - it's Yom Kippur tonight and I've gotta finish
preparing our before-the-fast feast (SCD of course, plus bread and
stuff for everyone else)! :-)


Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:58:59 -0400
From: Midas Gold <midasgold@pipeline.com>
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Re: Mycobacterium Paratuberculosis, CD, and Pasteurized Milk

Well, anyone who reads alt.support.crohns-colitis, or who otherwise
keeps up with Crohn's news (we have Crohn's set as one of our topics
in Excite.com's NewsTracker service), is probably aware that
Mycobacterium Paratuberculosis is stalking Great Britain's dairy
industry like an army of microscopic Godzillas. Dairy producers in
the UK are already taking steps to lengthen the pasteurisation
intervals for commercial milk, and there are increasingly audible
murmurings in the US for us to follow suit (though we Americans don't
pasteurise; we pasteuriZe). Here are a couple of URLs on the topic:



One reason I brought it up here on this list is that when we make our
homemade yogurt, we heat our milk to the boiling point - I wonder: is
that sufficient to kill any M.P. critters lurking there? Yikes - what
if there's M.P. in the storebought yogurt we're using as a starter?
Or is Lactobacillus antagonistic to M.P.?


Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:38:19 -0400
From: Midas Gold <midasgold@pipeline.com>
To: SCD-list@longisland.com
Subject: Re: Yogurt Makers - Lactobacillus Bar Discussion Lounge

As long as we're on this topic again, I thought I'd re-post, for the
benefit of any newbies and anyone else who's interested, the URL for
the "Lactobacillus Bar Discussion Lounge" - a web-based discussion
group devoted to yogurt making! Enjoy!



Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:37:11 -0500
From: porter@sprint.ca
To: <SCD-list@longisland.com>
Subject: Re: yogurt starter

>Can you use a little of the yogurt that you've made as a starter for the next
>batch. We sometimes have a hard time finding organic yogurt without additives.


Sorry for the caps. This was taken from BTVC page 132 under the
"Yoghurt" Chapter. It also gives advice as to what type of starter to


Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:27:29 -0600
From: "William Laing" <wlaing@telusplanet.net>
To: <SCD-list@longisland.com>
Subject: Re: Yogurt and geletin.

>Can anyone tell me if gelitin is allowed to thicken yogurt in the SCD?
>Can anyone reccomend ways to thicken. I know milk powder is one but i
>noticed some of that milk powder had say powder+ACEAIQAh-
Hi There
Do not use milk powder for your yoghurt. Stick with regular milk and you can thicken it up by adding half and half to you milk, or use all half and half. It will become very thick by using any of the rich milks.

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:35:46 -0500
From: Karl Partridge <karlpartridge@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:SCD-list@longisland.com" <SCD-list@longisland.com>
Subject: Intolerance of Yoghurt/Start-up Diet


Just a word of warning to you and any others starting out on the diet about yoghurt. It is recommended to eat lots of homemade yoghurt as one of the basic foods when starting out on the diet. I did this and couldn't understand why my symptoms got gradually worse. I eliminated the yoghurt and things immediately got better. I had started the diet once previously and failed to identify this intolerance, so beware. I did read earlier on the List that some people couldn't tolerate yoghurt, but didn't think it applied to me! (I wonder how common this intolerance is?) I'm told yoghurt is very mucus forming.

I've been back on the diet 2 weeks and I'm living on chicken soup, chicken soup and chicken soup! With added carrots, turnips, zucchini, small amount of onion, celery and mixed herbs. It tastes good. I use organic produce if at all possible. I simmer the stew for a good while to make sure all the ingredients are soft and easily digestible. I did try pureeing the veg but I found it made it very bland and boring.

I also eat rabbit stew, cod cooked in butter and shrimps as a change from chicken. I tried a smoked shoulder of ham but the fibres remain very tough no matter how much you boil it. For dessert, jelly made with grape or pear juice, honey and the odd ripe banana.

For snacks I sometimes buy sliced ox tongue from my local supermarket - I checked the ingredients and there are no banned substances added; but be careful because sometimes in small shops tongue is sold out of a can with all sorts of disallowables in it.

Does anyone have any ideas of what sweet snacks one can make at start-out: honey + what?

Karl (UC)
N. Ireland.

Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 10:50:09 -0600
From: "Bixler, Cindy" <cindyb@gasullivan.com>
To: "'SCD-list@longisland.com'" <SCD-list@longisland.com>
Subject: RE: Where can I get a Yogurt Making Machine!!!!!

I purchased the Yogourmet Multi yogurt machine and it makes great yogurt.
I've never had any problems with it.
You can read more about it at...
V.M.C. Corp.
92, Maple Street
Weehawken, New Jersey
Tel.: (800) 863-5606 sans frais
Fax: (201) 863-3137
e-mail: vmc.corp@cwixmail.com

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